# Toughest athletes in the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 4, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061 "2005-12-04T18:40:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/41 "2005-12-05T07:35:57Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Watch [this](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/37869/footballs_biggest_hits/) all the way through for anyone who is unfamiliar with football. Some of the earlier hits aren’t that impressive but you see some crazy ones later on. Also keep in mind that while the video may not convey this accurately, typically these hits involve strong, highly athletic men moving at the absolute maximum speed they possibly can when they collide with the other player. Great link. It should also be mentioned that 98% of those hits were perfectly legal at the time they were made. Let me say for a moment that I love Steve Atwater and Earl Campbell. Great vintage stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/42 "2005-12-05T07:37:06Z")
Yeah, about the only ones I saw that would have been illegal were a few that looked like face mask violations. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/43 "2005-12-05T08:18:17Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Not precisely since it’s generally illegal for a teammate to push a ball carrier forward (though rarely enforced) though there was a case in the big USC-Notre Dame game (college football, not pro) this year where it happened on the goalline as time expired…no penatly called. Also, if a runner loses possesion of the ball it’s a _much_ greater disadvantage for the offense than doing so in rugby. Therefore a maul-like situation is very risky for the offense and it’d typically prefer to get to the ground to reset the play. To futher complicate matters, at the referee’s discretion he can stop the play if there is no forward progress of the ball, which would make a rugby-style maul very short lived. > > Anyways, the more common analogy would be a running play in which the offensive and defensive lines charge together, then the running back carries the ball at full speed into the back of the scrimmage hoping to press through. > > I think the fact that the two lines (averaging about 310 lbs) start in opposite directions on the snap together and the back is at full speed when he meets the scrimmage makes the impacts and risk more severe than in a typical maul which is mostly pushing and not crashing together. Well, they used to allow interlocking offensive formations in American football, but they were banned in 1910 after the death rate (caused by the combination of rugby and American-football styles of play…to wit, the tendency to get large numbers of players together and hit members of the other team at full sprint) became unacceptable. It was a huge issue. In 1905, in fact, 18 players died in collegiate football games. That’s about as close to a maul or ruck as American football has, except perhaps for the formations noted above. But tough? Hell, the Georgia center this past weekend played with (IIRC) two broken fingers, torn ankle ligaments, and cracked ribs. Even so, he was absolutely dominant. Tough son of a bitch. Just like in rugby, players play with severe injuries. Happens all the time. The only difference is that the pads in American football, as has already been noted, serve 1) to let players hit each other much, much harder than would otherwise be possible, and 2) as weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/44 "2005-12-05T08:25:41Z")
That’s what I get for not previewing. Also, great link. I was trying to find a video I once saw online of some great Alabama Crimson Tide plays that includes some huge hits (it’s the vid they play on the jumbotron before Tide games at home,) but was unsuccessful. I have a copy, but I’m afraid posting it on my site might be a copyright violation. Anyway, the abvove link is even better. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/45 "2005-12-05T08:41:56Z")
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand one more. [Here](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4247215-103977,00.html) is a fun article about rugby captain Martin Johnson going to visit the San Francisco 49ers’ training camp. He notes in particular the physicality of the players (especially the linemen) thus: > [@](#): > > He even finds them physically impressive. ‘Some of them are normal-looking people,’ he says at one point, ‘and some are from a different planet.’ > > Which sounds pretty odd coming from someone who towers over virtually everyone he meets. > > ‘Oh mate,’ he says when I make the point. ‘They make me look.’ He can’t quite think what they make him look like, but instead points at one of the muscled up linemen nearby. ‘Look at him, say. He’s got arms out here.’ ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/46 "2005-12-05T14:16:23Z")
Wait, am I reading that rule correctly? Rugby players aren’t allowed to slam into anyone? As in, the only legal tackle is an _arm tackle_?! WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/47 "2005-12-05T14:20:24Z")
Thats basically correct. They can crash into them so long as they are making an attempt to wrap them up at the same time. Can’t lower a shoulder on them though. They basically are reduced to grabbing and pulling down as opposed to knocking down. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/48 "2005-12-05T15:58:09Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > They wear pads in American football because it’s a tougher sport than rugby. People in American football, heavy, strong, and fast people, are slamming into each other constantly in a way they don’t do in rugby. This is an untrue statement. It puts the cart before the horse. Most other football versions do not allow padding specifically to discourage the type of violence one sees regularly in American football any more. By putting state of the art helmets and pads on players, they feel protected enough to engage in mayhem that as often puts themselves in danger as it does the one they are hitting. Aussie rules, a MUCH more “vicious” sport than rugby (in the sense that what will be called a foul in rugby won’t get a second look in and Aussie rules match) is also played without pads; yet if you watch it, you will see that they are careful about how they engage in their particular form of mayhem. If you put helmets and pads on them, they’d be just as nasty, if not nastier, than the NFL. Pads lead to roughness, not vice versa. Association football refuses to allow padding for just that reason. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/49 "2005-12-05T16:19:56Z")
Speaking of which, I’m surprised in this football dominated thread that no one is mentioning Australian Rules Football. It involves aggressive tackling, considerable running (the pitch on which it is played is a cricket oval, much larger than Rugby, gridiron, or association football play. It runs for 4 20 min. quarters of fairly fast action, with few stoppages. They don’t wear pads. Because one of the ways to score is to gain a free kick from catching the ball in the air as it is kicked in your direction, you see a lot of times where guys jump quite high to catch the ball, without much regard for how they are going to land. I’d put it ahead of rugby for overall toughness, which I define to be more than just physical strength or ability to soak up violence. Triatheletes are awesome. I’ve always thought that. But no one hits them while they do their thing, so I guess it depends upon how you define “tough.” ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/50 "2005-12-05T18:20:07Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Pads lead to roughness, not vice versa. Association football refuses to allow padding for just that reason. That’s one opinion, but I’m not the one to follows that particular school of thought. As someone who wore pads in football I was completely aware that they only offered me limited protection. I remember when someone blind sided me with a block that knocked me flat on my back. My head hit the ground so hard that I just laid on the ground and squeezed my eyes shut because it felt like my they had been knocked out. Of course those pads don’t do much to protect the neck, arms, ribs, back, or anything on your legs. From what I’ve read it looks like pads in the United States were adopted to protect players from a violent sport. Perhaps the violence increased with the adoption of pads, specifically the helmet, but I remain unconvinced. I think it was a more violent sport than rugby to begin with. Marc ---
**Author:** ![ThisSpaceForRent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisspaceforrent/32/345_2.png) [@ThisSpaceForRent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisSpaceForRent)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/51 "2005-12-05T18:41:44Z")
… wow is this thread is about Football vs Rugby? :smack: My vote, since the OP did not specify “human” athlete" I add **An Iditarod Dog** ever try running 1149 mile in less than favorable weather, in less then 10 days…just my POV dsw in BFE ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/52 "2005-12-05T18:54:27Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > You’re assuming ballerinas aren’t tough! Boxing is like ballet, except there’s no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061/53 "2005-12-05T19:06:57Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Pads lead to roughness, not vice versa. Association football refuses to allow padding for just that reason. This statement is no more true than the one you retort. It’s a symbiotic thing. The game changes as pads are introduced, for sure, but pads are introduced as a response to the game. Though I do agree that Aussie Rules ranks a step ahead of rugby on that list. To get off the football-centric chatter and address the OP directly, I tend to agree with those fighting sports as being the toughest. I wrestled in school and it was unbelievable how much strength and conditioning you needed. You’d never believe how exhaused you could get in just 6 minutes. I never boxed, but I wouldn’t be shocked to learn that it was a similar feeling and probabaly worse. Kickboxers and Thai boxers and extreme fighters are clearly heavyweights in the toughness discussion. On the whole, football was tougher than wrestling, but not by much. And I’d put one of the combat sports as being the toughest overall. Those endurance guys certainly have a brand of toughness that’s respectable, but physical contact and human opposition add such a huge dimension both mentally and physically that they fall short. It’s tougher to try and run down a flat field with someone trying to stop you every inch of the way than it is to run up the steepest of hills alone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-athletes-in-the-world/334061.md?page=2)