# Toughest leaders in history
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [August 18, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595 "2013-08-18T22:57:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/21 "2013-08-19T14:22:42Z")
> [@Xema](#):
>
> My vote goes to Kamehameha I, the great conqueror and king of Hawaii.
>
> He is reputed to have started his career by moving - some say lifting - the 5000-lb Naha Stone. This may be open to doubt, but there is no question that he was enormously strong, ruthless, a natural warrior and leader.
>
> He would have about as much trouble in a fight with Putin as Putin would with FDR.
May be open to doubt? Why would anybody take that claim seriously?
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/22 "2013-08-19T14:37:49Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#):
>
> But if it’s bare hands only, I wonder how Cortes would have fared against Atahualpa in single combat.
I suspect that either Cortes or Pizarro, as military men who had served in hand-to-hand combat (although armed with swords), would have easily beat Atahualpa, who I don’t think would have ever engaged in real physical combat himself. I’m not sure whether Moctezuma would have participated in combat himself, but I don’t think he would have been able to beat the Spaniards. Aztec combat was more ceremonial than down-and-dirty; the Spaniards would have been more like street fighters.
Cortes and Pizarro, however, were never heads of state, unless you regard them as being de facto rulers as viceroys.
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### Author:  [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/23 "2013-08-19T15:31:05Z")
> [@the\_diego](#):
>
> Idi Amin was big and maybe tough enough.
I was going to mention Amin, who was his country’s light heavyweight boxing champion. Hand-to-hand, no weapons, I’d take him over any 20th or 21st century leader.
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### Author:  [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/24 "2013-08-19T15:36:30Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#):
>
> I was going to mention Amin, who was his country’s light heavyweight boxing champion. Hand-to-hand, no weapons, I’d take him over any 20th or 21st century leader.
Not Teddy or Putin. Roosevelt was a very good judo/jiujitsu student in the era where judo was just starting to emerge from jiujitsu. In addition to his boxing training and all-around cussedness, I have no doubt that he would own Amin.
That said, Putin is still a class above Roosevelt. Teddy was a very good fighter for a politician; Putin, in his prime, was a very good fighter for a fighter.
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/25 "2013-08-19T16:20:50Z")
Barehanded, my money is on Peter the Great of Russia- he was a huge (6 foot 8), strong guy.
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### Author:  [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/26 "2013-08-19T16:27:58Z")
> [@Xema](#):
>
> My vote goes to Kamehameha I, the great conqueror and king of Hawaii.
>
> He would have about as much trouble in a fight with Putin as Putin would with FDR.
Oh! Yeah. Kamehameha is certainly going to make it to the final rounds.
Also, [FDR in Battle Mode](http://sharpwriter.deviantart.com/art/FDR-Battle-for-America-Poster-252913162).
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### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/27 "2013-08-19T18:21:50Z")
I’ve a sneaking suspicion that Putin would _really_ enjoy going mano-a-mano with Alexander the Great, I reckon he’d even let the young Macedonian be on top for a while but eventually he’d pull him off.
Then a quick warm-down, shower and relaxing message.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/28 "2013-08-19T19:28:59Z")
Whatever Putin is paying his PR team, he should double it. Those guys are doing a real good job.
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### Author:  [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/29 "2013-08-19T20:15:39Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> Barehanded, my money is on Peter the Great of Russia- he was a huge (6 foot 8), strong guy.
Yeah, good call.
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/30 "2013-08-19T20:26:48Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#):
>
> Thought of some candidates who might give Vlad a run for his money, looking back into antiquity as **Alessan** suggested - Kings of Sparta. Leonidas was around 60 when he died but he was a product of the hardest warrior culture ever to exist, including the agoge from age 7.
Leonidas and the other Spartan Kings would get DQ’d when they disregarded our unmanly modern Pankration rules disallowing groin strikes, rabbit punches, 12-6 elbows, finger breaking, etc. … 😃
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/31 "2013-08-19T21:12:54Z")
Why would Putin beat Netanyahu? Netanyahu was in Sayeret Matkal, which practices Krav maga. You’d assume an elite special forces operative trained in a deadly hand to hand combat art would beat a KGB operative trained in Judo. Krav Maga, unlike Judo, is designed to work in a real world fight ASAP so you can move onto other issues. Judo is a competitive sport, not a method of winning a fight as fast as possible.
As far as historical figures like the king of sparta, those people also existed in a time when healthcare was non-existent and malnutrition was rampant. So any modern competitor could be more physically hardy than someone who was plagued by injuries and malnutrition.
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### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/32 "2013-08-19T21:21:29Z")
> [@wolfman](#):
>
> The viking and other barbarian warlords were the first to come to mind for me. Someone bred and built in battle, particularly single-man warfare rather than organized-disciplined unit warfare seem good candidate for ass kicking.
[Harald Hardrada, 7 foot tall berserker King of Norway.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Hardrada)
He sounds hard to top in a hand-to-hand fight.
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### Author:  [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/33 "2013-08-19T21:30:21Z")
Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull could whoop some ass.
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### Author:  [@KRC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KRC)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/34 "2013-08-19T22:13:59Z")
I’d pay to see Vlad Putin go hand on hand with Vlad the Impaler (also known as Dracula.)
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### Author:  [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/35 "2013-08-19T22:37:37Z")
Lincoln…he was a lanky 6’4" street fighter who grew up strong doing backbreaking physical labor. He would have wiped the floor with Putin.
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### Author:  [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/36 "2013-08-20T00:21:34Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#):
>
> Why would anybody take that claim seriously?
Probably because of the number of seriously badass things he was able to accomplish.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/37 "2013-08-20T14:28:10Z")
Another Russian for your consideration; Tsar Alexander III, not as tall as Lincoln (6’2") but he was noted for his physical strength.
The Vikings also have to have a look in - I nominate King of Norway Harald Hardrada, another who was noted for his height. During his exile in his earlier life he was in the Varangian Guards, the Byzantine Empire’s hard as nails mercenaries. He must have also been in pretty good shape enjoying swimming and rowing.
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### Author:  [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/38 "2013-08-20T14:36:28Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#):
>
> I was going to mention Amin, who was his country’s light heavyweight boxing champion. Hand-to-hand, no weapons, I’d take him over any 20th or 21st century leader.
> [@StusBlues](#):
>
> Not Teddy or Putin. Roosevelt was a very good judo/jiujitsu student in the era where judo was just starting to emerge from jiujitsu. In addition to his boxing training and all-around cussedness, I have no doubt that he would own Amin.
>
> That said, Putin is still a class above Roosevelt. Teddy was a very good fighter for a politician; Putin, in his prime, was a very good fighter for a fighter.
Amin was 6’ 4" - according to google, he had six inches in height on Teddy, and nine on Putin. Yeah, yeah, elite martial arts skills. Assuming both sides are at least minimally competent fighters, I’ll take the height and reach. (Which is also why I don’t think I’d take Amin over the seven-foot-tall berserker viking.)
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### Author:  [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/39 "2013-08-20T14:39:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> As far as historical figures like the king of sparta, those people also existed in a time when healthcare was non-existent and malnutrition was rampant. So any modern competitor could be more physically hardy than someone who was plagued by injuries and malnutrition.
Not so much with the malnutrition if you’re the king. It’s good to be the king.
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toughest-leaders-in-history/666595/40 "2013-08-20T14:57:04Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#):
>
> Amin was 6’ 4" - according to google, he had six inches in height on Teddy, and nine on Putin. Yeah, yeah, elite martial arts skills. Assuming both sides are at least minimally competent fighters, I’ll take the height and reach. (Which is also why I don’t think I’d take Amin over the seven-foot-tall berserker viking.)
Amin is a good addition to the discussion. Amin would be a tough opponent in boxing, but if the fight is MMA rules as per the op his skill set might be limited. James Toney had a championship boxing career with an 74-8-5 record (45 by knockout), but when he tried to make the switch to MMA Randy Couture defeated him fairly quickly by simply not boxing him - Couture shot for his legs, had him on the ground in 25 seconds and submitted him in a minute or two. If Amin can’t expand his skill set to at least staying off of the ground, he might be in trouble (if he doesn’t get DQ’d for trying to eat his opponent first).
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