# Tour de France 2010 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 3, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387 "2010-07-03T03:18:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/121 "2010-09-30T10:23:06Z")
Sorry, the UCI not the WADA. And also, I guess the significance of the “400 times less” thing is that on one view it is an amount 400 times less than the UCI thinks it’s worth being able to test for: which might mean they regard it as an amount 400 times less than would actually have any effect. As you say **DragonAsh** , the rules are quite strict and it may be that AC is stripped and suspended but as far as I can determine from the information in the current news cycle, there may be some support for the idea that it wasn’t deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/122 "2010-09-30T10:23:17Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > > [@DragonAsh](#): > > > > Contador’s publicist came out with the ‘400 times less than the level needed to be able to detect’ quote. > > No [it was the WADA](http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/sep/30/alberto-contador-positive-test). I think you need to start checking your facts or at least providing some cites. Well, you’re right (sort of) - actually it was the UCI: > [@](#): > > The UCI statement said Contador’s sample was analyzed by the WADA-accredited laboratory in Cologne, Germany. > > “The concentration found by the laboratory was estimated at 50 picograms (or 0,000 000 000 05 grams per ml) which is 400 times less than what the anti-doping laboratories accredited by WADA must be able to detect,” the UCI statement said. It’s still irrelevant - as per WADA: > [@](#): > > The director general of Wada, David Howman, told The Associated Press that testing positive for even the most minute amounts of clenbuterol could be enough to sanction an athlete, although he declined to discuss the specifics of Contador’s case. > > “The issue is the lab has detected this,” Howman said. "They have the responsibility for pursuing. There is no such thing as a limit where you don’t have to prosecute cases. This is not a substance that has a threshold. > > "Once the lab records an adverse finding, it’s an adverse finding and it has to be followed up. > > “Clenbuterol is a substance that has been used for over 20 to 30 years. It is not anything new. Nobody has ever suggested it is something you can take inadvertently.” ---
**Author:** ![Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambihelical_Hexnut)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/123 "2010-09-30T12:49:54Z")
Such a shame to hear this news. Landis got busted and stripped of the 2006 title. Riis, Ullrich and Pantani (winners in '96, '97 and '98) have all been involved in doping cases. Lance Armstrong’s been accused of drug use for years. Now Contador got busted. If the allegations against Armstrong are true, that means the winners of 14 of the last 15 Tours have doped. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/124 "2010-09-30T13:33:29Z")
Very interesting post from another board: > [@](#): > > The [study](http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/69/11/4538.pdf) (NOTE: PDF) in question looked at the pharmacokinetic characteristics of clenbuterol in Veal calves, with particular emphasis on the elimination half-life and determining residue levels of the drug in various tissues and organs. In this study the animals were dosed with 5µg/kg clenbuterol which is approximately 5 times the normal therapeutic dose. Dose levels of this kind are comparable to that used by farmers to increase muscle mass in cattle. What was striking about the study is the highest levels of clenbuterol, or residues of clenbuterol, can be found in the eye, liver and lung of the animal with much smaller amounts found in muscle and fat. > > Well, a therapeutic dose in humans is between 5-20µg (equates to approx 0.33µg/kg) and that based on the levels of clenbuterol found in the lung or liver, an individual would need to consume between 100-200 g of lung, liver or eye. In order to achieve the same level from eating muscle would require at least 10 times more!! > > A simple calculation shows that if AC did get clenbuterol in his system from eating contaminated meat he would have needed to consume at least 1-2kg of steak (muscle). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/125 "2010-09-30T14:11:30Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Very interesting post from another board: > > > [@](#): > > > > The [study](http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/69/11/4538.pdf) (NOTE: PDF) in question looked at the pharmacokinetic characteristics of clenbuterol in Veal calves, with particular emphasis on the elimination half-life and determining residue levels of the drug in various tissues and organs. In this study the animals were dosed with 5µg/kg clenbuterol which is approximately 5 times the normal therapeutic dose. Dose levels of this kind are comparable to that used by farmers to increase muscle mass in cattle. What was striking about the study is the highest levels of clenbuterol, or residues of clenbuterol, can be found in the eye, liver and lung of the animal with much smaller amounts found in muscle and fat. > > > > Well, a therapeutic dose in humans is between 5-20µg (equates to approx 0.33µg/kg) and that based on the levels of clenbuterol found in the lung or liver, an individual would need to consume between 100-200 g of lung, liver or eye. In order to achieve the same level from eating muscle would require at least 10 times more!! > > > > A simple calculation shows that if AC did get clenbuterol in his system from eating contaminated meat he would have needed to consume at least 1-2kg of steak (muscle). 1-2 kg of meat would not be out of bounds for a TofF rider over 2-3 days eating. They can consume as much as 8,000 calories during and after most typically long stages. Much of that is on bike carbs during the stage but high protiein intake is needed as part of the recovery for the next day. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/126 "2010-10-01T02:10:11Z")
Does anyone think any TdF rider is “clean”? Really? Me, I’m not particularly bothered that they use the dreaded PEDs. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/127 "2010-10-01T11:46:50Z")
**Yonkeroo** - What bothers me about PED use isn’t so much the use itself, but the lying about it. It’s why I have a bit of respect for Riccardo Ricco and Bernhard Kohl. At least they admitted things when they were positive. Of course I would rather everyone be clean, but I would settle for people just being open and honest when they test positive. [Apparently, L’equipe is reporting](http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lequipe-raises-new-doubts-over-contador) that a plastic substance from blood bags was found in his blood. If true, this would lend credence to the ‘clenbuterol from tainted blood’ theory that has been floating around. If Contador gets a suspension (and I believe he will whether this story is true or not), I would rather it be for something substantial rather than something that could _potentially_ be from tainted steak. Whether true or not, Contador’s reputation was already hurting from Operation Puerto. This whole ordeal certainly doesn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/128 "2010-10-01T12:14:02Z")
> [@drm](#): > > **Yonkeroo** - What bothers me about PED use isn’t so much the use itself, but the lying about it. It’s why I have a bit of respect for Riccardo Ricco and Bernhard Kohl. At least they admitted things when they were positive. Of course I would rather everyone be clean, but I would settle for people just being open and honest when they test positive. Or David Millar - probably the only cyclist who’s ever fessed up without actually failing a drugs test. Speaking of whom, he came second to Cancellera in the world TT champs earlier this week and yet again we have the real achievements of the sport obliterated off the sports pages by this bollox. I misunderstood the reporting of ‘threshold amounts’ of clen when the story broke, so I guess Contador is on the hook for a banned substance. If he was tested in the days shortly before, as apparently he was and was clean, then he surely has some wriggle room. Depends on how fast the drug is cleared from the system I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/129 "2010-10-01T14:33:56Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > > [@DragonAsh](#): > > > > Very interesting post from another board: > > 1-2 kg of meat would not be out of bounds for a TofF rider over 2-3 days eating. > They can consume as much as 8,000 calories during and after most typically long stages. Much of that is on bike carbs during the stage but high protiein intake is needed as part of the recovery for the next day. You do realize that we’re talking around 2-4 pounds of meat? I’m a big eater, but an 8-ounce steak fills me up. A pound is 16 ounces. No way is any rider eating 2-4 pounds of meat, let alone during the tour. Tour dinners are primarily pasta, rice or potaoes, and chicken meat. Glycogen repleneshing is key, which is why cyclists eat mostly high-starch/carbohydrate foods. Lean steak is also eaten, but certainly not in 2-pound portions. In addition, riders eat easy-to-digest foods towards the end of the tour (note this was in the last week of the Tour) since their body can’t spend energy on digesting food. Meat is hardly ‘easy to digest’. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/130 "2010-10-01T14:41:31Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if beef was indeed on the menu to provide an alibi. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/131 "2010-10-05T11:34:05Z")
And now there are reports of a [second failed test](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/more/10/04/cycling.contador.ap/index.html?eref=sihp)that would prove he was indeed doping. I notice \*\*RedFury \*\*has been rather quiet since the object of his manlove was outed. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387/132 "2010-10-05T11:57:08Z")
Yep, looks like he’s what everyone long suspected. The point that the very small amount of clenbuterol could have come from a transfusion is a good one. The point that the amount of contaminated steak he would have had to eat is a good one and the plasticisers are a killer point. He’s screwed, I think. Did anyone know before now about the technique of picking up autologous transfusions by testing for plasticisers? I hadn’t heard it. I wonder if knowledge of the technique had been deliberately held back until a suitable cheat could be taken down with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tour-de-france-2010/545387.md?page=6)