# Tourists in US: complaining about food
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [June 10, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721 "2012-06-10T14:16:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/41 "2012-06-11T13:16:32Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#):
>
> FWIW I lived in Turkey, and while I \*liked \*the food, I can’t say I noticed it was of particularly higher quality than anything I could eat in America.
There is the curiuos case of _döner kebap_ in Turkey vs. Germany: that dish from Turkey has been a popular fast food in Germany since at least the 1980s. At first some kebap stands cutting corners made difficulties for local health/hygiene regulating authorites, so in 1989 courts and regulators adopted a minimum döner kebap ingredients/processing standard referred to as the _Berliner Verkehrsauffassung_ (roughly, Berlin Commonly Accepted Standard).
Following complaints from German tourists, many Turkish hotels/restaurants catering to a largely German clientele have now adopted the _Berliner Verkehrsauffassung_ for their döner kebap.
---
### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/42 "2012-06-11T14:37:13Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#):
>
> Really? What’s “stabilizer” then? Looking at the YooHoo label, I’d tag probably the guar gum, xanthan gum, and lecithin in that category; it’s possible that a few other of the ingredients are as well, depending on what they mean by “stabilizing” a product. (Could be emulsification like the lecithin and xanthan gum suggest, could be a preservative of sorts.) What exactly is the Chocomel hiding under that catch-all term?
Well, OK, there’s an unspecified stabiliser in there (and to be honest, I’m more accustomed to seeing labelling that would say something like “stabiliser:Xanthan Gum” - it may even be that **I Love Me, Vol. I** didn’t transcribe the label properly - I can’t find an online example to check).
Point is, if there is anything hidden at all under ‘stabiliser’ in the actual product label, it isn’t a dozen of the major ingredients.
---
### Author:  [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/43 "2012-06-11T15:18:11Z")
I just looked it up. The stabilizer in Chocomel is carrageen (that’s the Dutch name any how). The rest of the ingredients are as mentioned above.
---
### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/44 "2012-06-11T15:24:20Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> For example: for the price of Velveeta or some other plasticky factory-made cheese in the USA, I can choose from 3 or 4 different varieties of yummy, high-quality, non-colored, no added junk/preservatives cheese in the Netherlands.
Every grocery store that I have been to in the US has a specialty cheese section. Usually over by the deli. I really don’t believe good cheese is that hard to find. It is much more expensive than Velveeta though.
---
### Author:  [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/45 "2012-06-11T15:28:36Z")
> [@Mangetout](#):
>
> Point is, if there is anything hidden at all under ‘stabiliser’ in the actual product label, it isn’t a dozen of the major ingredients.
But that list of 15 items for the Yoo-Hoo isn’t of major ingredients either – it says less than 2%. Might be .01% each for all we know. Both drinks list essentially milk and sugar first, and while we assume both follow the U.S. standard of listing them in order of decreasing weight, we can only guess at the percentages. Does Chocomel have 10% cocoa, or 1% cocoa? Does it have more or less stabilizer(s) than Yoo-Hoo? We can see that Chocomel has a shorter list, but without knowing what the European labeling standards are, and without knowing the actual quantities of those 15 items are (and why they are there), we could very easily be making an apples to oranges type comparison.
---
### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/46 "2012-06-11T15:45:26Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> (Except most Western European and virtually _all_ Eastern European countries smoke more cigs per capita than the US does, and while American winemakers have been legally forced to list the usage of sulfates since back in 1987, EU winemakers have only had to label their sulfate usage since 2006.)
I commonly joke that in Germany they don’t have smoking/nonsmoking, they have smoking/chainsmoking 😃
---
### Author:  [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/47 "2012-06-11T15:49:25Z")
As a diehard fan of Yoo-Hoo, I am willing to say that if you don’t want to drink it, then go ahead and don’t drink it. That’s more for me, anyway. So there. 🙂
I have never really thought about the food expectations of Europeans touring the USA.
Complaining that our cuisine is somehow different from (and therefore inferior to) their own traditional fare seems rather immature. Part of travelling is the exposure to those things that you could not easily find at home. Perhaps, the next time this comes up, you might wish to treat them to the experience of a down-home soul food dinner. Or perhaps a Cajun crawfish boil. I truly doubt that there are many Cajun restaurants in Europe. Heck, there aren’t that many outside of Louisiana and adjoining states in the USA.
Also, it is not as if the American culture is not widely promoted in other countries. Our fast food restaurants have metastasized throughout Europe and many of our agricultural products are distributed worldwide. Having said that, I do wonder if there are ‘American’ restaurants in Germany. What would you expect in an ‘American’ restaurant?
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/48 "2012-06-11T16:12:52Z")
> [@Cub\_Mistress](#):
>
> Americans are often criticized for complaining about the food when visiting in foreign countries. (Why can’t I get a good hamburger? How come everything is so spicy? What the heck is in this? etc.) We are told to hush up and enjoy the differences. (Rightly so, IMHO.)
>
> Recently, an internet acquaintance, was visiting the US (to be clear, not visiting me but here in the US.) She griped constantly about the quality of American food, posting about how to find “decent food” like she could get at home. There were complaints about the bread, butter, cheese, produce, fruit, milk, coffee, meats and sausages. Everyone rushed to give suggestions for finding food more to her liking. No one suggested she just try a few things and enjoy and embrace the differences.
>
> So, why is this somehow different when people visit the US? Or have you not experienced this?
IMO the box store environment has destroyed the food industry in the same way it’s destroyed retail stores.
It’s difficult to find much differentiation between stores today. The function of store buyer seems to be relegated to selling shelf space to wholesalers.
While this isn’t quiet as bad in the restaurant industry it’s created a very small selection of true eating choices. It’s all done in a corporate kitchen to be repeated in thousands of identical restaurants.
The result is an increase in the number of outlets but a decrease in the choices available. Do you want to go to the Subway 3 blocks from your house or 5?
---
### Author:  [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/49 "2012-06-11T16:35:29Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#):
>
> Also, it is not as if the American culture is not widely promoted in other countries. Our fast food restaurants have metastasized throughout Europe and many of our agricultural products are distributed worldwide. Having said that, I do wonder if there are ‘American’ restaurants in Germany. What would you expect in an ‘American’ restaurant?
Don’t know about Germany, but there are certainly American-themed restaurants in the UK. They sell pasta, steaks, ribs and so on, superficially similar to somewhere like Applebees.
High quality American restaurants? I’ve never seen one, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Since I moved back to the UK from the US a couple of years ago, the one thing I miss, somewhat bizarrely, is Arbys.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/50 "2012-06-11T16:40:25Z")
> [@Nava](#):
>
> Well, yeah, but I’d like an €…
You Spaniards… always looking for handouts. 😉
Sorry, couldn’t resist with the current headlines. Actually, hope all works out well for Spain. I only visited a few times, but thoroughly enjoyed it!
---
### Author:  [@JessEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessEnigma)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/51 "2012-06-11T19:54:21Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#):
>
> Also, it is not as if the American culture is not widely promoted in other countries. Our fast food restaurants have metastasized throughout Europe and many of our agricultural products are distributed worldwide. Having said that, I do wonder if there are ‘American’ restaurants in Germany. What would you expect in an ‘American’ restaurant?
Eh, in my experience, most of the American chains that have expanded overseas change their menus to suit local tastes. **PaulParkhead** is right in saying there are quite a few American-themed restaurant chains in the UK, but I’ve not found one that doesn’t include food combinations that my American palate finds bizarre on their menu. Even most of the fast food places are different – smaller menus, different items, different tastes for items that are supposedly the same. So if you believe these places to be accurate representations of American food, you’re gonna have some problems when you actually come to the US.
---
### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/52 "2012-06-11T19:59:49Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#):
>
> Is that because the US one is so terrible? Or partially because the US requires more specific descriptions? I remember seeing some pet treats (one product) that had separate ingredient sheets for each language, included US English and UK English. The US ingredient list was way longer for the same product. E.g. “stabilizer” could mean many of the other ingredients.
Yeah. It’s true. They didn’t specify what the stabilizer was, but still… I don’t see any high-fructose corn syrup, palm oil(?!?), guar or xanthan gum, sucralose, salt(?!), or water in Chocomel.
What the heck is that stuff doing in a chocolate milk drink? I suppose it’s to lower the cost of ingredients and help keep Con-Agra and Monsanto in business (corn). If the manufacturer wants to do that, that’s their choice. But why would anybody drink it?
---
### Author:  [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/53 "2012-06-11T20:09:45Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> Yeah. It’s true. They didn’t specify what the stabilizer was, but still… I don’t see any high-fructose corn syrup, palm oil(?!?), guar or xanthan gum, sucralose, salt(?!), or water in Chocomel.
>
> What the heck is that stuff doing in a chocolate milk drink? I suppose it’s to lower the cost of ingredients and help keep Con-Agra and Monsanto in business (corn). If the manufacturer wants to do that, that’s their choice. But why would anybody drink it?
[Yoo Hoo](http://www.drinkyoo-hoo.com/about/default.aspx) isn’t meant to be a chocolate MILK drink - it’s a chocolate drink. It only has some milk components by accident, I think. It was invented in the 1920s as a shelf-stable “chocolate drink.”
You’re better off comparing Chocomel to [Nesquik](http://www.nesquik.com/adults/products/nesquikreadytodrink/chocolate.aspx#) or the many many ubiquitously available [locally-produced chocolate milks.](http://www.garelickfarms.com/products/chug-pl-whole_chocolate.php)
Besides, Yoo Hoo is nasty. 😉
---
### Author:  [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/54 "2012-06-11T20:09:58Z")
Let’s face it: well-heeled people anywhere can buy the food that tastes best to them. When they travel, they may well run into foods that disappoint. Often this is because they don’t know where to find the good foods in a particular country. But it may also be that there are differences in food supplies between nations and even regions in nations.
All I’ve wished to share is that, as a middle-class American who shops in ordinary stores and can’t usually afford regular shopping in organic-type stores, I find that some foods I’ve eaten overseas seem to taste better - more natural and wholesome - than what I’m used to eating in the US from the ordinary supermarkets I frequent. The foods I’ve tasted in those overseas experiences were bought in ordinary, local food markets, most likely from local produce and animal stock.
Oddly enough, at least in Ukraine (my most recent overseas experience), if you have enough money to buy pricey supermarket food in a big city, you are probably buying a lesser quality of food (in terms of additives and real flavor) than a poorer person in the same city who has to frequent the poor people’s open stall food market on the corner. It is almost the reverse of what we see in the West, where people with discretionary funds often avoid supermarkets and go out of their way to buy organic, relatively natural foods from specialized local outlets.
---
### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/55 "2012-06-11T20:12:13Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> Yes, of course there are NO artificial ingredients or chemical preservatives in _anything_ sold _anywhere_ in Europe, as no self-respecting European would even ever entertain the very idea of using possibly unhealthy products like cigarettes or wine with sulfates…
I’m not talking about healthy versus unhealthy products and preferences, I talking about quality (in terms of ingredients and recipes) and taste of common grocery items. I’m sure there are artificial ingredients and preservatives in some or even many packaged European groceries. However: A) I really doubt there are nearly as many as we get in American packaged foodstuffs, and B) It’s not so much the artificial ingredients and preservatives as it is the cheap ingredient substitutions, cheap fillers, and artificial, and cheap “mouthfeel” approximations (various gums).
Above all, whatever the ingredients, the groceries I’ve had in Europe just taste so much more like food the American equivalents which resemble some synthesized artificial food fashioned out of silicon and recycled plastic that you’d read about in some dystopian SF novel about a barren planet a thousand years in the future.
---
### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/56 "2012-06-11T20:12:19Z")
> [@JessEnigma](#):
>
> Eh, in my experience, most of the American chains that have expanded overseas change their menus to suit local tastes. **PaulParkhead** is right in saying there are quite a few American-themed restaurant chains in the UK, but I’ve not found one that doesn’t include food combinations that my American palate finds bizarre on their menu. Even most of the fast food places are different – smaller menus, different items, different tastes for items that are supposedly the same. So if you believe these places to be accurate representations of American food, you’re gonna have some problems when you actually come to the US.
But I would bet that most ethnic restaurants here do the same thing. Unless your restaurant is catering to an expat community or to tourists, you’d pretty much _have_ to adapt your food to local tastes and expectations if you want to stay in business. It would also be a good idea to adapt your food to what’s available locally. You could probably get whatever authentic ingredients shipped in, but it would cost more than using some local thing that is close to it in taste and texture, and the quality might not be as good. Higher costs and lower quality to cater to a preference held by a minority of your customers does not sound like good business sense to me.
There are restaurants that advertise themselves as Chinese restaurants here that serve food that you’d be unlikely to find in China. Many Americans associate fortune cookies with Chinese food, but they were invented in California, and you will not find fortune cookies in China. There could be dishes that people in some other country associate with American food that are not actually common in the US.
---
### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/57 "2012-06-11T20:19:23Z")
> [@Mangetout](#):
>
> Well, OK, there’s an unspecified stabiliser in there (and to be honest, I’m more accustomed to seeing labelling that would say something like “stabiliser:Xanthan Gum” - it may even be that **I Love Me, Vol. I** didn’t transcribe the label properly - I can’t find an online example to check).
>
> Point is, if there is anything hidden at all under ‘stabiliser’ in the actual product label, it isn’t a dozen of the major ingredients.
I looked for about 45 minutes for an ingredient list and only found one on a third party exporter site. I was bummed I couldn’t find a more specific label (as **Eliahna** did… thanks!).
I think my point still stands.
---
### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/58 "2012-06-11T20:22:27Z")
> [@enipla](#):
>
> Every grocery store that I have been to in the US has a specialty cheese section. Usually over by the deli. I really don’t believe good cheese is that hard to find. It is much more expensive than Velveeta though.
My point exactly. It is an expensive, “gourmet”, specialty item instead of simply being the basic cheese you would find in any grocery story. Even the huge corporate ones. Plasticky, no-taste cheese usually isn’t even an option (or the horror! They don’t have our wonderful American freedom to purchase crap cheese!)
---
### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/59 "2012-06-11T20:33:33Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> My point exactly. It is an expensive, “gourmet”, specialty item instead of simply being the basic cheese you would find in any grocery story. Even the huge corporate ones. Plasticky, no-taste cheese usually isn’t even an option (or the horror! They don’t have our wonderful American freedom to purchase crap cheese!)
Does it cost significantly more than the equivalent cheese would in a supermarket in Europe? Are the tourists complaining about the cost of decent cheese saying decent cheese is expensive compared to what it would cost at home, or are they comparing its cost to the fake cheese food in US supermarkets?
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/60 "2012-06-11T21:06:51Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#):
>
> Does it cost significantly more than the equivalent cheese would in a supermarket in Europe? Are the tourists complaining about the cost of decent cheese saying decent cheese is expensive compared to what it would cost at home, or are they comparing its cost to the fake cheese food in US supermarkets?
AFAICT the “gourmet” cheese I buy from Europe is transported by FedEX Next Day Air … one slice at a time.
Americans have gotten so accustom to everything in large quantities served before the order is finished being taken. I’m surprised McDonalds doesn’t use some kind of food bazooka to deliver it direct from the fryer.
It’s not just tourists who complain about the food. For me to get a decent meal I have to seek out a one-off restaurant. I’m not talking about a 5-star meal, I’m referring to a meat-and-potatoes place that understands quality over quantity. I don’t want a pizza the size of a car door for $5. I want a good pizza with good ingredients.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721.md?page=2)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721.md?page=4)