# Tourists in US: complaining about food
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [June 10, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721 "2012-06-10T14:16:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/61 "2012-06-11T21:21:40Z")
I can buy excellent Danish, Dutch or French cheese in a local supermarket here in little ol’ Salt Lake City for about the same price I would pay (after the exchange rate is factored in) in Copenhagen, Amsterdam or Paris.
I can also buy artisan specialty cheese made in Wisconsin, Oregon, California or even right here in Utah that tastes every bit as good as many of the finest European cheeses.
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### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/62 "2012-06-11T21:35:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> It’s not just tourists who complain about the food. For me to get a decent meal I have to seek out a one-off restaurant. I’m not talking about a 5-star meal, I’m referring to a meat-and-potatoes place that understands quality over quantity. I don’t want a pizza the size of a car door for $5. I want a good pizza with good ingredients.
Same here. But I understand that there are lots of people here who _do_ want a pizza the size of a car door for $5. I can’t really complain that there are people who want that and other people who are willing to sell it to them. I’m sure there is cheap food in Europe, too. The poor people and college students there must eat _something_. Do these people complain about that, too?
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### Author:  [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/63 "2012-06-12T01:02:55Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> My point exactly. It is an expensive, “gourmet”, specialty item instead of simply being the basic cheese you would find in any grocery story. Even the huge corporate ones. Plasticky, no-taste cheese usually isn’t even an option (or the horror! They don’t have our wonderful American freedom to purchase crap cheese!)
I just went to Kroger (grocery chain in the U.S. Midwest,) and the “specialty” cheese was like right after you walk into the place. A wedge of Parmigiano-Reggiano (PDO compliant import from Italy) was $7. a similar size wedge of “parmesan” (same style of cheese but made in the US) was $5. So yes, the “real” stuff was more expensive, but calling it “expensive” is idiotic.
you know, we have more food and drink in this country besides McDonald’s and Budweiser. You’d know that if you’ve ever set foot in the U.S., which I doubt you have.
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/64 "2012-06-12T01:17:10Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#):
>
> To me, this just sounds like whiny pouty bitchy people, irrespective of whether they’re from overseas. I suspect their fellow Germans (French? Europeans? Whatevers?) would rather not be lumped in with them.
This. I’d be willing to bend over backward to accommodate a foreign visitor . . . but if their complaints are nonstop, regardless of my efforts, I’d have to face the fact that my guest is simply a rude, unreasonable person. People like that exist on both sides of the pond, or other ponds.
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### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/65 "2012-06-12T01:32:31Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#):
>
> (missed edit window)
>
> Yes, Europeans shop in big (though not \*that \*big, usually) corporate-owned supermarkets just as we do here. The difference is your average corporate mega-grocery in Europe would never sell an abomination like Yoo-Hoo. Who in the hell would buy it?
>
> Pretty much the same thing goes for packaged cookies, candies, soup mixes, sauces, etc.---- all your basic “convenience” (pre-made) groceries.
What the fuck are you talking about? I’ve been to a slew of European groceries, and they all carry the same crap that we have here, but with a slightly larger emphasis on freshness than we do. You can definitely buy pre-packaged things and pre-made things in European groceries, and to claim otherwise is absurd.
- by slew, I mean Carrefour, Delhaize, Albert Heijn, Dirk Van Den Broek, Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Waitrose, and a place in Budapest that I can’t remember the name of.
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### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/66 "2012-06-12T01:54:29Z")
> [@bump](#):
>
> What the fuck are you talking about? I’ve been to a slew of European groceries, and they all carry the same crap that we have here, but with a slightly larger emphasis on freshness than we do. You can definitely buy pre-packaged things and pre-made things in European groceries, and to claim otherwise is absurd.
I have a feeling that he doesn’t want to hear it, as your observations might well derail his chances of being elected the SDMB “Expert On All Things European In Relationship To How Much America Is A Morally Bankrupt, Culturally Backward, Wal-Mart Addicted Juggernaut Needing To Be Put In Her Place By A Sophisticated, World-Wise Gourmet.”
That said, there are apparently others in this thread still in the running for the title…
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### Author:  [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/67 "2012-06-12T02:07:42Z")
In a timely coincidence, a friend visiting the US posted this on Facebook.
> [@](#):
>
> Some of their food leaves me shaking my head. Huge proportions, and much of it is either sweet or fried (or both!) ☹
>
> And don’t get me started on ‘biscuits’. Looks exactly like scones, but made with plain flour and they use baking soda as a rising agent. They turn out like a firm scone tasting strongly of baking soda. THEN they cover it with ‘gravy’ - more a white sauce flavoured with bacon or perhaps mushrooms. Either way - not to my taste at all.
“Plain flour” is what you guys would call “All purpose flour”. An Aussie scone would be made with Self Raising Flour (where baking powder is the rising agent, not baking (aka bi-carb) soda, and is usually served with sweet accompaniments such as the classic jam and cream.
She also described grits being something like a cross between porridge and risotto.
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### Author:  [@JessEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessEnigma)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/68 "2012-06-12T02:16:46Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#):
>
> But I would bet that most ethnic restaurants here do the same thing. Unless your restaurant is catering to an expat community or to tourists, you’d pretty much _have_ to adapt your food to local tastes and expectations if you want to stay in business. It would also be a good idea to adapt your food to what’s available locally. You could probably get whatever authentic ingredients shipped in, but it would cost more than using some local thing that is close to it in taste and texture, and the quality might not be as good. Higher costs and lower quality to cater to a preference held by a minority of your customers does not sound like good business sense to me.
And the ethnic restaurants should change their menus! I feel like it should be expected. For all that I make fun of ‘American’ restaurants that slap a handful of ingredients they’ve decided are American on everything and call it a day, I don’t actually expect them to change to suit me. But some people do expect that whatever they get at their ethnic restaurant of choice in their hometown is going to be identical to what they get travelling in that country. And therein lies a lot of complaints over food, I think. People setting themselves up for disappointment by not realising what differences exist.
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### Author:  [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/69 "2012-06-12T02:19:16Z")
> [@Eliahna](#):
>
> In a timely coincidence, a friend visiting the US posted this on Facebook.
> “Plain flour” is what you guys would call “All purpose flour”. An Aussie scone would be made with Self Raising Flour (where baking powder is the rising agent, not baking (aka bi-carb) soda, and is usually served with sweet accompaniments such as the classic jam and cream.
>
> She also described grits being something like a cross between porridge and risotto.
Where did she get the idea biscuits are made with baking soda? They’re traditionally made with baking powder.
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### Author:  [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/70 "2012-06-12T02:40:32Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#):
>
> Where did she get the idea biscuits are made with baking soda? They’re traditionally made with baking powder.
She’s just relaying what she’s experiencing. I don’t know if she’s stumbled across the only biscuits in the US made with baking soda or if she’s identifying the ingredient wrongly, but that’s her impression of biscuits in the US.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/71 "2012-06-12T02:55:37Z")
> [@jz78817](#):
>
> I just went to Kroger (grocery chain in the U.S. Midwest,) and the “specialty” cheese was like right after you walk into the place. A wedge of Parmigiano-Reggiano (PDO compliant import from Italy) was $7. a similar size wedge of “parmesan” (same style of cheese but made in the US) was $5. So yes, the “real” stuff was more expensive, but calling it “expensive” is idiotic.
>
> you know, we have more food and drink in this country besides McDonald’s and Budweiser. You’d know that if you’ve ever set foot in the U.S., which I doubt you have.
The last time I sampled something yummy in the Kroger cheese emporium it was over $17 a lb. I don’t know if it was aged in a soyuz space capsule or made from the milk of Himalayan mountain mice but it seemed a bit pricey. I make no claims to knowing what it cost in Ireland but I imagine it’s a bit lower.
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/72 "2012-06-12T03:33:31Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#):
>
> Does it cost significantly more than the equivalent cheese would in a supermarket in Europe? Are the tourists complaining about the cost of decent cheese saying decent cheese is expensive compared to what it would cost at home, or are they comparing its cost to the fake cheese food in US supermarkets?
I’m not sure I understand exactly what your question is. If you’re asking:
“Does quality, imported cheese in the specialty food section of an American supermarket cost a lot more than the equivalent cheese would cost in a European supermarket?”
…Then I don’t know the current answer to that. I do know that when I lived in the Netherlands normal Goudse kaas (Gouda) cost about the same as normal, packaged, rather bland cheddar, colby, jack or American cheese cost in an American supermarket. So at that time the answer would be “Yes. Imported or high-quality American-made Gouda cheese costs a lot more.” Maybe $8 or $9 a pound for the USA store specialty cheese versus $3 or $4 a pound for the same cheese in the Netherlands store.
Currently it might be different, and of course exchange rates come into play too. I don’t know what tourists think of the price of cheese in Holland. I do know that the cheese you get there is not a specialty item; it’s just what any Dutchperson would consider regular, store-bought cheese. The Dutch eat a lot of cheese and I don’t think they would appreciate a staple food being sold at gourmet food prices. And as I said, in my experience it’s priced as a basic staple food.
Moreover, there isn’t an option of buying lower-quality factory-made USA supermarket cheese at a lower price. Same with Velveeta-type stuff. You can probably find processed cheese-food products in NL. But, ironically, THAT would be considered a “specialty food” there and would cost more accordingly.
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/73 "2012-06-12T03:47:32Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> I can also buy artisan specialty cheese made in Wisconsin, Oregon, California or even right here in Utah that tastes every bit as good as many of the finest European cheeses.
I know that’s true and I’ve enjoyed some of those cheeses. Especially since a quality American-made artisanal Gouda is generally cheaper than imported Dutch Gouda.
With cheese, as with beer, Americans are just as capable of making high-quality foods and beverages as the Europeans are. My point has been: a cheese that is considered a higher-priced, artisan specialty cheese here would (in most cases) be considered equivalent to a run-of-the-mill, everyday, supermarket-bought cheese in the Netherlands.
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/74 "2012-06-12T03:49:46Z")
> [@Eliahna](#):
>
> In a timely coincidence, a friend visiting the US posted this on Facebook.
> “Plain flour” is what you guys would call “All purpose flour”. An Aussie scone would be made with Self Raising Flour (where baking powder is the rising agent, not baking (aka bi-carb) soda, and is usually served with sweet accompaniments such as the classic jam and cream.
>
> She also described grits being something like a cross between porridge and risotto.
Let’s all visit Queensland, and tell Victorians what’s wrong with their food! Your friend is talking about the South. Gravy is a southern thing usually. Also, I’ve had grits maybe twice in my life, but I’d say it’s closest to polenta (maybe a bit more “airy”), and nothing like risotto. Unless she overcooks her risotto.
On cheese etc.: the prices of the US vs. random European cities are difficult to compare. If you’re buying in Oslo or Stockholm, then **everything** is more expensive. I guess (cheap cheese / expensive cheese) is a good metric. I also know that a “foreign” label can increase the price artificially. Witness Stella Artois’ price in the US (usually about $9 a six pack vs. $0.60 - $1 can for cheap lagers which aren’t much worse), and what I’ve heard about Budweiser’s popularity in Ireland (not sure of the price).
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/75 "2012-06-12T03:57:41Z")
Sorry to pile on so many consecutive posts. I can only handle reading and then reacting to one post at a time.
> [@bump](#):
>
> What the fuck are you talking about? I’ve been to a slew of European groceries, and they all carry the same crap that we have here, but with a slightly larger emphasis on freshness than we do. You can definitely buy pre-packaged things and pre-made things in European groceries, and to claim otherwise is absurd.
>
> - by slew, I mean Carrefour, Delhaize, Albert Heijn, Dirk Van Den Broek, Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Waitrose, and a place in Budapest that I can’t remember the name of.
Sorry. The post you are reacting to didn’t say what I meant to say. I screwed it up.
I wrote:
> [@](#):
>
> Yes, Europeans shop in big (though not that big, usually) corporate-owned supermarkets just as we do here. The difference is your average corporate mega-grocery in Europe would never sell an abomination like Yoo-Hoo. Who in the hell would buy it?
>
> Pretty much the same thing goes for packaged cookies, candies, soup mixes, sauces, etc.---- all your basic “convenience” (pre-made) groceries.
Which sounded like I was saying that average corporate supermarkets in Europe would never sell “packaged cookies, candies, soup mixes, sauces, etc.”
That is not correct. I got confused and left part of my post out. When I wrote “Pretty much the same thing goes for x, y, and z…” I was saying that the aforementioned products there are like the cheese and bread you would buy there in that-- even though those items are pre-packaged convenience products, they are, IMO, better tasting with better ingredients and less junk than their American equivalents.
Thank you for pointing out my ridiculous mistake.
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### Author:  [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/76 "2012-06-12T04:14:37Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#):
>
> Let’s all visit Queensland, and tell Victorians what’s wrong with their food! Your friend is talking about the South. Gravy is a southern thing usually. Also, I’ve had grits maybe twice in my life, but I’d say it’s closest to polenta (maybe a bit more “airy”), and nothing like risotto. Unless she overcooks her risotto.
My mistake. I thought the South was part of the USA in much the same way that Queensland is part of Australia and therefore “Queensland food” IS “Australian food”, even if it is a regional dish.
I’m sure she’ll share her thoughts on the food in the rest of the country as her travels take her there. Should I only post her reaction to nationally available dishes (McDonalds, perhaps?), or is the problem that I posted negativity rather than gushing praise?
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### Author:  [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/77 "2012-06-12T04:49:45Z")
Nowhere in your post was it stated that she was visiting a particular region, except implicitly. “Visiting the US” assumes some sort of breadth, which wasn’t there. If it’s necessary to make assumptions, go ahead.
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### Author:  [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/78 "2012-06-12T05:38:40Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#):
>
> Nowhere in your post was it stated that she was visiting a particular region, except implicitly. “Visiting the US” assumes some sort of breadth, which wasn’t there. If it’s necessary to make assumptions, go ahead.
She arrived in Tennessee on May 20 and since then has blogged about being in Memphis, taking a steam boat down the Mississippi and visiting towns in Arkansas and Louisiana, staying in New Orleans (where she described the food as “a delight”), then on to Atlanta, Charlottesville, New York, Philidelphia, Washington D.C., and Jamestown. I think they’re sticking to the East Coast on this trip.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/79 "2012-06-12T06:21:19Z")
> [@Eliahna](#):
>
> She arrived in Tennessee on May 20 and since then has blogged about being in Memphis, taking a steam boat down the Mississippi and visiting towns in Arkansas and Louisiana, staying in New Orleans (where she described the food as “a delight”), then on to Atlanta, Charlottesville, New York, Philidelphia, Washington D.C., and Jamestown. I think they’re sticking to the East Coast on this trip.
If she was in Louisiana and Arkansas she made it west of the Mississippi which is not the Eastern part of the United States. I happen to love southern style biscuits and gravy but if she doesn’t then I won’t hold it against her. It’s entirely possible that the biscuits she ate were frozen and the gravy was made from a powder mix. A lot of restaurants cut corners and end up selling an inferior product, it’s true.
Let me tell you a little horror story about a little restaurant here in Little Rock, Arkansas. There’s a restaurant called Bob’s Country Cookin’ that I went to a few months ago. They’re only open for lunches, they only serve 5 entrees per day and what’s on the menu changes from day to day. Here’s what I thought, they must use fresh ingredients and make everything from scratch. After all, why have such a limited menu if everything’s canned and frozen? I went in and got the chicken fried steak, mashed potatoes, corn and cornbread. What I got was a thawed out chicken breast, instant mashed potatoes, reconstituted powdered gravy mix, canned corn and cornbread made from a store bought mix. I was sorely disappointed.
Fortunately I know where to go to find good food here in Arkansans. Your friend probably doesn’t know where to get good food. I’m going to Scotland in a few years and I don’t imagine I’ll know where to get good food myself. It’s tough traveling.
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [June 12, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tourists-in-us-complaining-about-food/624721/80 "2012-06-12T06:26:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> You Spaniards… always looking for handouts. 😉
>
> Sorry, couldn’t resist with the current headlines. Actually, hope all works out well for Spain. I only visited a few times, but thoroughly enjoyed it!
No me jodas, macho, I’m from a region which only has a deficit equal to one of the debts the central government has with us! If they paid us everything they owe us, we’d have a superavit bigger than some other regions’ budgets. Half the budget cuts we’re taking aren’t even necessary in economic terms: they’re being mandated by Madrid in a “one size is bloody well going to fit all” approach.
Apparently having a government which can find its arse with both hands and not just every citizens’ wallet is undemocratic and inequalitarian, and it Must Not Be Allowed.
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