# Tow truck company must accept 8800 pennies?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 4, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310 "2009-08-04T17:42:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Mike.V](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike.V)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/1 "2009-08-04T17:42:13Z")
Recently [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URWkNslcxPM) has been making the rounds of a man in Florida who paid an $88 bill to reclaim his car entirely in pennies. The police had to be called to the scene to enforce payment.
My question is, if push came to shove would the tow truck company really have to accept pennies?
The [Treasury Department FAQ](http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml) states:
> [@](#):
>
> This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.
So it’s pretty clear that if he walked into a convenience store and tried to buy $88 worth of goods with pennies, the store would be well within their rights to reject it. And if a bank extended him $88 worth of credit, he would be allowed to repay them in pennies.
But this situation seems kind of in between- he incurred a debt with the company, but there was no agreement before hand about the payment. So what’s the Straight Dope? Can you pay a tow truck company entirely in pennies?
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### Author:  [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/2 "2009-08-04T17:50:42Z")
They don’t have to accept it. As long as they are not rejecting it due to any bias against the payer. if you don’t take 50’s from people under 30: problem.
If you don’t take pennies from old, cranky guys who you dislike: problem.
If you reject the payment because it’s not gonna work for you (too many coins to count, or bills you can’t cash all the time), then you are fine.
It’s not much more complicated than that.
Anecdote: I had a man threaten me with violence when I would not accept a 50 for a 4 dollar video rental at 11 am. We had a policy posted. He didn’t care. He was HOT. I took his 50, gave him 11 dollars change, because that was all I had. The police found it to be very funny.
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### Author:  [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/3 "2009-08-04T18:35:53Z")
> [@Philster](#):
>
> They don’t have to accept it. As long as they are not rejecting it due to any bias against the payer. if you don’t take 50’s from people under 30: problem.
>
> If you don’t take pennies from old, cranky guys who you dislike: problem.
>
> If you reject the payment because it’s not gonna work for you (too many coins to count, or bills you can’t cash all the time), then you are fine.
>
> It’s not much more complicated than that.
>
> Anecdote: I had a man threaten me with violence when I would not accept a 50 for a 4 dollar video rental at 11 am. We had a policy posted. He didn’t care. He was HOT. I took his 50, gave him 11 dollars change, because that was all I had. The police found it to be very funny.
They have to take it. Otherwise, they have stolen this man’s car. He has incurred a debt. They must either accept legal payment for that debt in whatever species the man has, or they must void the debt and return the car.
If they were a pizza shop, they could refuse to give him his pizza if he paid in pennies, but that is different: the person who ordered the pizza has incurred no cost or loss of property due to the refusal to offer a pizza. But once you take possession of the man’s car, you have to accept his payment to get it back.
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/4 "2009-08-04T18:47:48Z")
The thing is there are obligations to certain kinds of transactions.
Generally speaking you are free to discriminate and free to take payments UNLESS there is a law to the contrary.
Things like towing of cars and such are covered by state and local laws thus may be different from the ordinary Joe running a 7-11
For instance in Illinois the vehicle code states:
> [@](#):
>
> Section 18d-165 requires that commercial vehicle safety relocators accept payment in cash or by any major credit card.
To me this code is wide open, I mean "what is a \*major \* credit card. Though I assume you’d have a pretty hard time arguing MasterCard and Visa aren’t.
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### Author:  [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/5 "2009-08-04T19:00:11Z")
> [@Flymaster](#):
>
> They have to take it. Otherwise, they have stolen this man’s car. He has incurred a debt. They must either accept legal payment for that debt in whatever species the man has, or they must void the debt and return the car.
>
> If they were a pizza shop, they could refuse to give him his pizza if he paid in pennies, but that is different: the person who ordered the pizza has incurred no cost or loss of property due to the refusal to offer a pizza. But once you take possession of the man’s car, you have to accept his payment to get it back.
No, they don’t. So there.
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/6 "2009-08-04T19:08:21Z")
> [@Philster](#):
>
> They don’t have to accept it. As long as they are not rejecting it due to any bias against the payer. if you don’t take 50’s from people under 30: problem.
>
> If you don’t take pennies from old, cranky guys who you dislike: problem.
>
> If you reject the payment because it’s not gonna work for you (too many coins to count, or bills you can’t cash all the time), then you are fine.
>
> It’s not much more complicated than that.
I would have thought there would be different rules payment of debts to payment for goods services. The latter is up to you, anyone can walk away and get their videos from the shop down the road that does accept $50s. But you have no option when it comes to paying dept. After all that debt is incurring interest, and you could potentially stall payment (I don’t accept coins, I don’t accept $50s, I don’t accept checks) until the interest is due.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/7 "2009-08-04T20:21:58Z")
I am interested in this as well. If the tow company can refuse this payment, what other stipulations can they add to the payment? What if they say that they ONLY will accept 50 cent pieces or two dollar bills? Is that okay?
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/8 "2009-08-04T20:38:29Z")
Didn’t Cecil do a [column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/297/is-it-legal-to-pay-a-big-debt-in-small-change) on this? There used to be hard limits on the number of coins that people had to accept, but those limits may be gone and the whole area is one of murky untested laws?
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### Author:  [@as\_u\_wish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/as_u_wish)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/9 "2009-08-04T20:43:52Z")
So is there anything to stop the tow truck company from agreeing to accept the pennies but stating that they need to verify the amount and then taking, oh, say, 7 or 8 hours counting the pennies and then getting confused and having to start over and then saying that the amount is off by 37 cents, etc., until the customer gets bored?
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/10 "2009-08-04T20:47:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Didn’t Cecil do a [column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/297/is-it-legal-to-pay-a-big-debt-in-small-change) on this? There used to be hard limits on the number of coins that people had to accept, but those limits may be gone and the whole area is one of murky untested laws?
He does seem to imply that indeed there is a difference under law between paying for goods and services, and the payment of debts:
> [@](#):
>
> “legal tender”–that is, officially recognized as legal payment for debts.
That says to me that while you can insist on payment for video store only in 50-cent peices and two-dollar bills, you have to (at least within the scope of the murky laws Cecil lays out) accept any legal tender for payment of debts.
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### Author:  [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/11 "2009-08-04T20:56:20Z")
I feel like this topic comes up often in this forum which decisive proclomations on both sides. Anyway, here’s the Treasury Department’s take on it, whom I assume has the most definitive answer:
[http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml](http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml)
[QUOTE=Treasury Department]
This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services.
[/QUOTE]
I tend to read it that yes, the tow-operator must accept the pennies to satisfy the \*\*debt \*\*and release the car.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/12 "2009-08-04T22:02:26Z")
I think that the OP makes the distinction very clear. If you go to a video store or a restaurant, they are allowed to set the terms of the transaction because there has been no exchange up to that point. They can say no pennies, no credit cards, only 1857 half-cent pieces, and likewise you are free to say “no” to the terms, negotiate and/or do business elsewhere.
But this seems unique as you didn’t contract with this tow company, and you seem to owe them a debt in order to get your car back. And it differs from a debt like a credit card, a mortgage, or most other things because you generally sign a contract up front stipulating the terms of those agreements. I’m sure that in the 14,000 pages of your credit card agreement that you aren’t allowed to send sacks full of pennies to make your payment.
So it hinges on whether or not you are in “debt” to the tow company? Does it matter here that you never contracted for the service?
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### Author:  [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/13 "2009-08-04T22:50:50Z")
> [@as\_u\_wish](#):
>
> So is there anything to stop the tow truck company from agreeing to accept the pennies but stating that they need to verify the amount and then taking, oh, say, 7 or 8 hours counting the pennies and then getting confused and having to start over and then saying that the amount is off by 37 cents, etc., until the customer gets bored?
I’m not sure that would work in most cases. Wouldn’t the customer’s righteous indignation far outlast the company’s stalling? The whole time you’re sitting there, they’ve got the car on the lot and aren’t getting extra money for it (I’m pretty sure they’d have no reasonable argument for trying to charge you for time they kept your car after you paid them).
And if they said you were a bit short, just hand over another handful of pennies.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/14 "2009-08-04T23:44:37Z")
What if you refuse to take ANY payment?
The Federal government aquired Arlington by refusing to accept the tax payments then seized it for non-payment. What if a company won’t accept any payment or only accepts payment in pre-1900 Double Eagles. Is there any law saying that companies must accept “reasonable” payments?
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/15 "2009-08-04T23:50:56Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> What if you refuse to take ANY payment?
> The Federal government aquired Arlington by refusing to accept the tax payments then seized it for non-payment. What if a company won’t accept any payment or only accepts payment in pre-1900 Double Eagles. Is there any law saying that companies must accept “reasonable” payments?
Surely a tow company would be required to accept payment to release an impounded car. Or else I am going into the towing business and looking for illegally parked Lexus vehicles.
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### Author:  [@Jerseyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerseyman)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/16 "2009-08-04T23:58:01Z")
The US may be unusual or leave it to the individual states to rule on, but nearly all countries stipulate a maximum acceptable number of sub-denomination coins that can be replaced by something of higher value. If you hand over 30 cent pieces the recipient is entitled to turn it down and tell you to come up higher denomination and to count it as default if you do not.
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### Author:  [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/17 "2009-08-05T00:12:55Z")
I drove a tow truck many years ago. During business hours any form of payment was acceptable, go pay at the office. After 5 pm and before 7 am and on weekends, credit cards only. I turned down cash a number of times.
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### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/18 "2009-08-05T01:21:53Z")
> [@Philster](#):
>
> Anecdote: I had a man threaten me with violence when I would not accept a 50 for a 4 dollar video rental at 11 am. We had a policy posted. He didn’t care. He was HOT.
[emphasis mine]
I now have an image of you in my head lusting after this man…
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### Author:  [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tow-truck-company-must-accept-8800-pennies/505310/19 "2009-08-05T02:41:37Z")
> [@Philster](#):
>
> No, they don’t. So there.
So what precisely are the criteria for when they _do_ have to accept payment? Can they demand 44 $2 bills, and keep your car for a few days (racking up more storage fees) until you track that down? Demanding only $2 bills isn’t due to any bias, the guy just likes $2 bills. Nothing wrong with that.