# toward being a free man on the land **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826 "2013-06-24T21:31:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/281 "2013-06-25T23:53:19Z")
But he was responding to Hentor. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/282 "2013-06-26T00:20:35Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > The water temp is rising in the boiling pot of frogs and you don’t see it. > … > yea I’.m out But the frogs are almost done! > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He was implying that **Lemur866** is slow, _aka_ stupid. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > But he was responding to Hentor. Do I do this in GD? Nope, I could get in trouble. **Hentor** , please pretend I made a cheap joke at your expense. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/283 "2013-06-26T00:22:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > But he was responding to Hentor. He wasn’t [the first time](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16411442&postcount=60) he threw out that lemur comment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/284 "2013-06-26T00:24:15Z")
Ah, I see. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/285 "2013-06-26T00:33:20Z")
Wow, longassed thread where denial is rampant in one poor schlub. I have issues understanding the mental process where he [?] still refuses to understand that the whole free man concept is blown repeatedly with lots of supporting info. But then again, it is like all the people who are ‘off the grid’ yet still use stuff they have purchased to actually _go_ off grid. [the picture I liked best was the one where they were living in a modern trailer home, with commercial solar cells, commercial batteries and using laptop computers, with a case of bottled water in the corner stacked on top of several huge multipacks of toilet paper homeschooling the kids dressed in grranimals.] ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/286 "2013-06-26T00:40:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [This one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqZBeDW3rWY), for example. > > From this old thread on the matter; [Sovereign citizen tests his theories in practice; is shocked by the results](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=666038). Just in case anyone wondered about the outcome. [http://www.cdapress.com/news/local\_news/article\_9447b4f2-2efb-11e2-9acf-0019bb2963f4.html](http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_news/article_9447b4f2-2efb-11e2-9acf-0019bb2963f4.html) Quick synopsis: The guy tried to videorecord in the courtroom. He was told he couldn’t. The courtroom was cleared and he left with the others. He then tried to re-enter and was told he couldn’t with the camera (phone). Two cops blocked his path. It looks like he may have bumped into them, claiming they were denying his freedom. (The entire time, he was spouting freeman dogma and being a general nuisance, though definitely nonviolent.) The cop pulled out a taser, shot, cuffed, and arrested him. He was charged with contempt of court and 3 charges of assault (which didn’t seem legit, from the video), but I’m no legal expert. He pleaded nolo contendre (or equivalent, I forget the term) on the contempt charge. The assault charges were dismissed. He was sentenced to 180 days but released on 26 days served with the rest suspended, with a year of probation and $150 in court costs. Evidently he had a number of run-is with the police: “I always avoid contact, but they always contact me,” he said. “They really like screwing with me. I get pulled over too much.” Based on his own video, he’s really bad at avoiding conflict. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/287 "2013-06-26T00:57:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Was that actually an insult? 'Cause all I see is a colossal non-sequitur. Mocking another poster’s username in an explicit effort to call that poster stupid qualifies as an insult. (And had I seen the first occurrence, he’d have gotten the Warning, then.) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/288 "2013-06-26T01:05:47Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I have issues understanding the mental process where he [?] still refuses to understand that the whole free man concept is blown repeatedly with lots of supporting info. That’s the whole deal for me. If this worked, if this was even remotely possible, then there would be a huge portfolio of cases they’d won. But there isn’t a single one. You’d think that would, at some point, register with people before they got too far into it, but no, they keep insisting that if they just cast the right spell, it will work for them where it has failed for all others before them. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/289 "2013-06-26T01:25:51Z")
How many centuries did alchemists search for the Philosopher’s Stone? Same drive, only wackier. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/290 "2013-06-26T01:32:10Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Just in case anyone wondered about the outcome. > > [http://www.cdapress.com/news/local\_news/article\_9447b4f2-2efb-11e2-9acf-0019bb2963f4.html](http://www.cdapress.com/news/local_news/article_9447b4f2-2efb-11e2-9acf-0019bb2963f4.html) > > Quick synopsis: The guy tried to videorecord in the courtroom. He was told he couldn’t. The courtroom was cleared and he left with the others. He then tried to re-enter and was told he couldn’t with the camera (phone). Two cops blocked his path. It looks like he may have bumped into them, claiming they were denying his freedom. (The entire time, he was spouting freeman dogma and being a general nuisance, though definitely nonviolent.) The cop pulled out a taser, shot, cuffed, and arrested him. He was charged with contempt of court and 3 charges of assault (which didn’t seem legit, from the video), but I’m no legal expert. > > He pleaded nolo contendre (or equivalent, I forget the term) on the contempt charge. The assault charges were dismissed. He was sentenced to 180 days but released on 26 days served with the rest suspended, with a year of probation and $150 in court costs. Evidently he had a number of run-is with the police: “I always avoid contact, but they always contact me,” he said. “They really like screwing with me. I get pulled over too much.” > > Based on his own video, he’s really bad at avoiding conflict. And, yet, **marcmcroy** appears to be under the impression that a suspect need only invoke his “Freeman on the Land” status, and the judge and prosecutor will go gray in the face and quickly settle the matter in an off-the-record hearing in chambers. Or something like that. Near as I can tell. > [@marcmcroy](#): > > This is why we are special appearence before court there is no court of record when a free man is and questions of sovereign soul and jurisdiction of the human being are brought into question. You never know of our victories in claiming our being above the statutes that try to entrap us. It would be very harmful to the illusion if a court of record showed otherwise, wouldn’t you agree? > [@marcmcroy](#): > > you yourself said it, before the bench. are all matters settled before the bench or is the bench the last resort between parties can resolve? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/291 "2013-06-26T01:41:31Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > How many centuries did alchemists search for the Philosopher’s Stone? > > Same drive, only wackier. It’s called the [Dunning-Kruger Overdrive](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658400)! ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/292 "2013-06-26T02:25:31Z")
I favor bringing back outlawry: forswear the protection of the law and the benefits of the State, and you are no longer bound by the law or subject to the State. Of course, those are linked; you waive the latter as well as the former if you enter the geographical area subject to the jurisdiction of any government, or interact with any person or object so situated (at least as regards that interaction). But if you leave us sheeple alone I, at least, am willing to leave you alone. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/293 "2013-06-26T04:17:15Z")
Perhaps we need some kind of Coventry for these folks?: [Coventry (short story) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry_(short_story)) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/294 "2013-06-26T04:23:15Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > That’s the whole deal for me. > > If this worked, if this was even remotely possible, then there would be a huge portfolio of cases they’d won. > > But there isn’t a single one. > > You’d think that would, at some point, register with people before they got too far into it, but no, they keep insisting that if they just cast the right spell, it will work for them where it has failed for all others before them. When you think about it, there wouldn’t be. Let’s assume for the moment that there really was some gaping loophole in American law that allowed people to declare themselves immune from all government authority. And some guy found this loophole and used it. What would happen then? Would the government really just try to hide this legal loophole and hope nobody else ever discovered it? Or would they just change the law (something they routinely do anyway) and close the loophole so it no longer existed? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/295 "2013-06-26T04:44:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > 1. So you received the benefits of a free public education? Why didn’t that enter you into a contract with the state? In all fairness, the OP seems to have tried his best to avoid gaining any of the benefits from point #3. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/296 "2013-06-26T05:37:14Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@marcmcroy](#): > > > > Lemurs (i/ˈliːmər/ lee-mər) are a clade of strepsirrhine primates endemic to the island of Madagascar. The word “lemur” derives from the word lemures (ghosts or spirits) from Roman mythology and was first used to describe a slender loris due to its nocturnal habits and slow pace > > Glad I aint on of them > > > > oops [Lemur - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemur) > > wow lil :rolleyes: huh mate > > You have been told to refrain from launching personal insults at other posters. > > This is a Warning that such continued behavior will result in the loss of privileges to post to this board. > > [/Moderating] In fairness, the first appearance of a moderator in the thread was Post 111. You’re quoting Post 76. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/297 "2013-06-26T05:43:25Z")
Missed the edit window: ETA to acknowledge that you’re calling out a different insult. Still, wording it as though he had disregarded a previously-issued warning is . . . problematic. ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/298 "2013-06-26T09:43:25Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Perhaps we need some kind of Coventry for these folks?: [Coventry (short story) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry_(short_story)) This is a massive derail, but at this point I think it matters little. You may or may not already know this, but being [“sent to Coventry”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Send_to_Coventry) is an old British idiom meaning to shun, ignore, ostracize. Undoubtedly Heinlein based his story on this usage. I guess the saying is better known than I thought it was. [/derail] ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/299 "2013-06-26T10:41:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Despite any claims to the contrary, this person does not represent the American people as a whole, either officially or unofficially, and most of us are as appalled as you at this level of delusionary ignorance. We have at least one here in Norway, healer, psychic and co-founder of Astarte how-to-talk-to-angels Education together with eldest child of (but by a stroke of luck/law not heir to) King Harald. When translating the nonsense from English, and not having any “common law” to build on here, she changed the reference to the most recent laws not being created by our parliament, those of an absolute monarch. They sure were free back then … ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/300 "2013-06-26T12:32:27Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Don’t worry, the UK and Canada have em too. Annoyingly, they rarely seem to put their beliefs into practice and go live on an island somewhere. Or maybe some do and are never heard from again, to be replaced by equally misguided others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826.md?page=16)