# toward being a free man on the land **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826 "2013-06-24T21:31:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/381 "2013-06-27T17:01:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What makes you think you can not-allow it? He is…_ **The Creator!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/382 "2013-06-27T17:01:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “Berth certificate” is always worth a snicker. They really are the sort of “truth is stranger than fiction” phenomenon that you’d never see in a serious work of fiction because no one would consider it plausible. One ponders some sort of cross-pollination between FOTL and Birtherism in which the proponents insist that Obama is actually registered under the flag of the Bahamas. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/383 "2013-06-27T17:02:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So… your position is that laws cannot be amended? Only statutes can be amended. Common law changes by judges’ decisions. But, the FOTL seem to equate common law with **natural** law, which by definition cannot be amended or change. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/384 "2013-06-27T17:36:46Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > I did not put that “ain’t on of them” in there. no personal insult meant that it was a declaration of conversing style, associating with the character of the nic. > Thanks for the warning though, understood. Really? > [@marcmcroy](#): > > Lemurs (i/ˈliːmər/ lee-mər) are a clade of strepsirrhine primates endemic to the island of Madagascar. The word “lemur” derives from the word lemures (ghosts or spirits) from Roman mythology and was first used to describe a slender loris due to its nocturnal habits and slow pace > _Glad I aint on of them_ > > oops [Lemur - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemur) > wow lil :rolleyes: huh mate (I hereby affirm that the only changes I made to that post were the coding ones) I wonder who added that extra text there? Was it Marc of the Family McRoy, or the strawman version referred to on your “berth” certificate? Which one of you is the one who admits to having created a joinder with this MB? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/385 "2013-06-27T18:23:02Z")
> [@thicksantorum](#): > > Poe. Once upon a midnight dreary . . . ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/386 "2013-06-27T19:36:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He is…_ **The Creator!** _ Makes this a witnessing thread, wot? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/387 "2013-06-27T19:54:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “Berth certificate” is always worth a snicker. I’m waiting for one of them to demand trial by a jury of his piers. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/388 "2013-06-27T20:03:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He is…_ **The Creator!** _ Not [this one,](http://archive.adl.org/backgrounders/wcotc.asp) I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/389 "2013-06-27T20:04:41Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’m waiting for one of them to demand trial by a jury of his piers. That’s what happens when you’re in the dock. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/390 "2013-06-27T20:09:12Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Poaching fish with some line from my hobo sack in order to eat dinner as a freeman on the land versus making joinder with a Primanti Bros. capicola and cheese sandwich? > > Boy, I feel like such a prisoner. Damn you! Now I am hungry! ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/391 "2013-06-27T20:12:11Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’m waiting for one of them to demand trial by a jury of his piers. We’ve got Morgan and Anthony… That’s two down and ten to go. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/392 "2013-06-27T20:20:42Z")
The bit I don’t get is how legal jargon got combined with fundamentalist Christianity into … this. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/393 "2013-06-27T20:24:14Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > I believe the delusion is on the other foot. I believe the vast majority of American are unaware of the changes that has restricted the freedoms of an average person. > This “show your papers” type of yes, I said “totaltarian” type of government has been slowly encroaching on personal liberties. Allot of people never leave their comfort zone, I on occasion do. I read about a law that said that if you do not have 7 dollars in your pocket and an state issued ID you may (can) be jailed on vagrancy charges, yep in the land of the free. > > Case in point, I was hiking in TN, got hungry. yep I got my bug out kit out made me a fishing line and proceeded to partake in fishing for food. Wildlife guy rolled up. > Where’s the fishing permit? “Don’t have one,” I replied. You need one he stated. I’m hungry and fishing for food, God gave me dominion over the fishes, so I thought. > Nope the state says you are recreational fishing and within my jurisdiction, the government agent said. > > An hour long debate on freedoms ensued. He did manage to throw some rocks in above my line, scaring my potential dinner, and left. BTW, I did eat that night. Wait. You admit to having no respect for those whose hard work and effort ensures that the “wilderness” you were in is actually kept free of development and stocked with fish? And when caught by one of those entrusted with seeing that there will still be fish for the next man who comes by, you had the audacity to claim you owed him nothing? You are a reprehensible thief. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/394 "2013-06-27T20:43:41Z")
Well, herin lies the problem of the freemen philosophy - it’s absurdity to any rational listener. It’s the tragegy of the "Come _ON_"s. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/395 "2013-06-27T21:32:01Z")
I love how god gives you dominion over the fishes but the next person to come along and fish responsibly or be certain that the population stays level is somehow defying god. You got a fish for all your effort. Big Win. The ranger should have tossed your poaching ass in prison where you could enjoy fishsticks. You probably were not worth the effort of hauling your ass out 10 miles, which means your victory was one of attrition, not freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/396 "2013-06-27T21:44:12Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > I love how god gives you dominion over the fishes but the next person to come along and fish responsibly or be certain that the population stays level is somehow defying god. ‘I don’t have to pay attention to laws other citizens created for everybody’s benefit or think about the consequences of my actions because FREEEDOMMMMM.’ ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/397 "2013-06-27T22:18:57Z")
So, after nearly 400 posts, it still boils down to “I got mine, so the rest of you can hang”? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/398 "2013-06-27T23:13:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What makes you think you can not-allow it? Well, that’s the exact point. You can’t tell a court that it does not have jurisdiction over you merely by announcing that the court does not have jurisdiction. I mean, it is possible for the judge to find that the prosecution does not have jurisdiction. But the judge will do that according to the rules the judge abides by. When you land in the land of the Jungle Cannibals, and you invoke your rights under the Fourth Amendment, the cannibals will ignore you. But if the invoke the Right of Quatloo, the cannibals will gladly grant you that right, because that’s a right they made up for themselves. So the problem is, suppose it is true that the fascists created a fictitious legal system of treating people like corporations and so on. And in the days of yore, we had a real system of common laws, not the current farce. Now what? How does it do you any good to invoke your old-timey rights? You’re a Jew in 1939 Germany arguing that that Nazis have no right to ship you off to the labor camps, because you don’t recognize the tyrannical government that usurped power in 1933. In other words, why would a corrupt usurping Judge of the Fascist United States of America in 2013 listen to your attempts to conduct proceedings according to the laws of free people? You claim you don’t live in a free country any more. Yes, so…all you have to do is explain to the fascist judge and fascist cops and fascist game wardens that you aren’t interested in their fascist rules, and they leave you alone? No, the whole point of fascism is that you don’t get to choose. Fascists don’t give a fuck about the law, they care about power. So when you talk about the law, they ignore you. When you talk about freedom they spit in your face. When you talk about justice, they drag you out back behind the chemical sheds and put a bullet in your brain. It is one thing to believe you live in a fascist dictatorship, and do everything you can to oppose that dictatorship. Resistance, evasion, sabotage, misdirection, all of it is justified in the fight for freedom. What is insane is insisting you live under fascism, and when the fascist cops drag you in front of the fascist judge you start talking about your rights and how you don’t acknowledge their authority and therefore you are now free to go. That’s insane, because fascists don’t care. Fascists have rules, but they live according to fascist rules made up by fascists, not your rules. The only way to argue with a fascist judge is to appeal to the fascist rules, because those are the only rules the fascist judge will consider. And he’s the one who decides whether you get dragged off to the camps, or set free with nothing worse than a stiff beating. ---
**Author:** ![Cerridwyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Cerridwyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerridwyn)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/399 "2013-06-27T23:20:59Z")
Of course, the same applies if you are brought before a _non_-fascist judge in a _non_-fascist court system in a _non_-fascist country and make the same silly claim. edited to add: _Shit!_-I forgot to sign Cerridwyn out and sign myself in. Your Friendly Neighborhood Czarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/400 "2013-06-27T23:33:04Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But the judge will do that according to the rules the judge abides by. When you land in the land of the Jungle Cannibals, and you invoke your rights under the Fourth Amendment, the cannibals will ignore you. But if the invoke the Right of Quatloo, the cannibals will gladly grant you that right, because that’s a right they made up for themselves. And because “quatloo” just means “choice of sauce”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826.md?page=21)