# toward being a free man on the land **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826 "2013-06-24T21:31:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/561 "2013-06-29T16:46:56Z")
“In fact, you have yourself shown examples where you have personally alienated the rights of other people. And there’s no shortage of cases throughout history where people have been deprived of life, liberty, and pretty much any other ‘natural’ right you have claimed. This includes the Americans in the Revolution. Their rights were alienated, which is why they revolted. It’s nice rhetoric to claim otherwise but even Jefferson understood the reality.” cite please? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/562 "2013-06-29T16:52:20Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > “In fact, you have yourself shown examples where you have personally alienated the rights of other people. And there’s no shortage of cases throughout history where people have been deprived of life, liberty, and pretty much any other ‘natural’ right you have claimed. This includes the Americans in the Revolution. Their rights were alienated, which is why they revolted. It’s nice rhetoric to claim otherwise but even Jefferson understood the reality.” > > cite please? The Holocaust, Jim Crow laws. ---
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/563 "2013-06-29T17:00:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > My cite is legally valid. > Your cite is legally crap. Too funny .. You saw church, and dismissed the rest . I gave you the answer to every detail you asked for cite on . Including court cases and statutes reaffirming such. All you had to do was look and see. Liberties and rights aren’t granted. The person(there’s that word again" has to demand it? You know there is a remedy. Once you know you can walk between both worlds, societies, heck even dimensions if you know the truth. Did someone say "the truth will set you free. Well I say to most. [Here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA) ---
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/564 "2013-06-29T17:02:48Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > The Holocaust, Jim Crow laws. You said that I have personally alienated, ..no poster, your governments (that you put faith in) did those attrocities, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/565 "2013-06-29T17:07:22Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And, they are cute when they do not realize that they are helping the opponent’s position more than theirs. **For Jefferson and other Deistic founding fathers, their god was better than the god of the bible.** My God’s better cause he eats Ken-L-Ration. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/566 "2013-06-29T17:10:01Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > “In fact, you have yourself shown examples where you have personally alienated the rights of other people.\*\* And there’s no shortage of cases throughout history where people have been deprived of life, liberty, and pretty much any other ‘natural’ right you have claimed.\*\* This includes the Americans in the Revolution. Their rights were alienated, which is why they revolted. It’s nice rhetoric to claim otherwise but even Jefferson understood the reality.” > > cite please? This is what I was responding to. I thought that’s what you wanted a cite for. ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/567 "2013-06-29T17:14:19Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > Wow, straw arguments here too, come on mate. > Anyone who has watched a television show about law enforcement has a heard a police officer read the suspect his or her Miranda Rights. After placing the suspect under arrest, the officer will say something similar to, “\*\*You have the right to remain silent. \*\*Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have a right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.” > > [here](http://www.mirandarights.org/) Please don’t take legal advice from works of fiction. ---
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/568 "2013-06-29T17:16:32Z")
I am not an advocate of the RED pill or the Blue pill, I want you to look up from the hand that is offering you this choice and see your own [eyes](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7PKRjrid4). ---
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/569 "2013-06-29T17:18:30Z")
> [@Robb](#): > > Please don’t take legal advice from works of fiction. How about someone on the bar? [here](http://www.duifelony.org/duirights.html) wow,just saying ---
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/570 "2013-06-29T17:20:41Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > This is what I was responding to. I thought that’s what you wanted a cite for. “you have yourself shown examples where you have personally alienated the rights of other people.” corrected, cite please? ---
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/571 "2013-06-29T17:36:49Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > As we have repeatedly pointed out: what natural rights? > > You claim they exist. Where’s your evidence they do and what makes them inalienable? > > In fact, you have yourself shown examples where you have personally alienated the rights of other people. And there’s no shortage of cases throughout history where people have been deprived of life, liberty, and pretty much any other ‘natural’ right you have claimed. This includes the Americans in the Revolution. Their rights _were_ alienated, which is why they revolted. It’s nice rhetoric to claim otherwise but even Jefferson understood the reality. > > Feel free to go off on another digression, but you have never satisfactorily answered this fundamental question. Based on your other posts in this thread, it’s clear you won’t. But I might as well remind any looky-loos of this fact. > > Not against the rules at all. But the folks who use big red letters tend not to be the ones who are entirely sane. Or rational. Or making a good point in any way. It’s not really a good sign for you. Self evident.. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.[HERE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/572 "2013-06-29T18:09:12Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > Self evident.. > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.[HERE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence) [READ and Learn.](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Declaration+of+independence). Get back to us when you’re ready for rational dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/573 "2013-06-29T18:48:00Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > Too funny .. You saw church, and dismissed the rest. No, I found bad legal advice and bullshit masquerading as history (as expected). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/574 "2013-06-29T18:49:20Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > Self evident.. > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.[HERE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence) Now quote a document of law that says the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/575 "2013-06-29T19:53:58Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > How about someone on the bar? > > [here](http://www.duifelony.org/duirights.html) > > wow,just saying Thank you, but I understand how the legal system works in the US. What I don’t understand is how you think it works. ---
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/576 "2013-06-29T21:41:09Z")
We’ve all seen the cartoons . Right? We are past[this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ME7K6P7hlko) right? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/577 "2013-06-29T21:44:28Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Don’t listen to him **Marcmcroy**! You never agreed to be bound by these statutes! Actually, in this case, he has: [SDMB registration agreement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650726) > [@](#): > > You agree to abide by the wishes of the board moderators in interpreting and enforcing these rules. Refusal to cooperate with board moderators or to abide by these rules is grounds for revocation of your posting privileges. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Also I know for a fact that **tomndebb** has a gold fringe. Ha! Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/578 "2013-06-29T21:57:04Z")
Does the fringe match the drapes, at least? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/579 "2013-06-29T22:25:25Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > We’ve all seen the cartoons . Right? > We are past[this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ME7K6P7hlko) right? People who think Youtube videos are arguments/evidence aren’t worth engaging, as they lack even the most fundamental debating skills. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/580 "2013-06-29T23:04:23Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > Black’s law does have its root in Latin, I know Latin better that Black’s > > “persona” (Latin) or “prosopon” (πρόσωπον: Greek) originally referred to the masks worn by actors on stage. The various masks represented the various “personae” in the stage play.[1] > [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person) Black’s is a dictionary of english as it is used in legal documents, so that when someone like me who is writing a memo [legal document] whomever reads the end product can understand exactly _how_ I am using a specific word. Frex, this is what it has to say about admiralty law … > [@](#): > > **[ADMIRALTY](http://thelawdictionary.org/admiralty/)** > > ``` > A court exercising jurisdiction over maritime causes, both civil and criminal, and marine affairs, commerce and navigation, controversies arising out of acts done upon or relating to the sea, and over questions of prize. Also, the system of jurisprudence relating to and growing out of the jurisdiction and practice of the admiralty courts. In English law. The executive department of state which presides over the naval forces of the kingdom. The normal head is the lord high admiral, but in practice the functions of the great office are discharged by several commissioners, of whom one is the chief, and is called the “First Lord.” He is assisted by other lords and by various secretaries. Also the court of the admiral. The building where the lords of the admiralty transact business. In American law. A tribunal exercising jurisdiction over all maritime contracts, torts, injuries, or offenses. 2 Pars. Mar. Law, 008; New England Marine Ins. Co. v. Dunham, 11 Wall. 1, 23, 20 L. Ed. 90; De Lovio v. Boit, 2 Call. 398, Fed. Cas. No. 3,77(5; The Belfast v. Boon. 7 Wall. 024, 19 L. Ed. 200; Ex parte Eastou, 95 U. S. 08, 72, 24 L. Ed. 373. > > ``` > > Law Dictionary: [A Information and Definitions from Black’s Law Dictionary](http://thelawdictionary.org/letter/a/page/51/#ixzz2XeJDWg7G) [Category: \A\](http://thelawdictionary.org/letter/a/page/51/#ixzz2XeJDWg7G) Please note it is specific to _maritime_ and has absolutely nothing to do with anything on land unless it specifically is about boats, cargos, waterborn personnel … So if I make a reference to admiralty law, the person reading my memo knows it is something to do with waterborn happenings, not some person deluding themself there is a magic word that makes the law not apply to themself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826.md?page=30)