# toward being a free man on the land **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826 "2013-06-24T21:31:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/161 "2013-06-25T05:17:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Your “authority” is imaginary, and the rule of law isn’t “enslavement”. It is in fact what prevents enslavement, since if someone tried to enslave me people with guns and badges would haul him off and toss him into prison. > > Well, too bad for you because there is no god of any kind, and even if there were he, she or it has no legal authority whatsoever. > > Because it cuts down on the cost to society of people being crippled & killed by their own stupidity. > > Yes. [This](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joinder) is what “joinder” actually means, and it has nothing to do with the wacky freeman/SC use of the term. joinder means just that that’s the exact thing i said bringing two parties together. Let me see when the slave the slave needs to be protected like the property they are. yes I understand that Yes the creator and I are one and God rules supremely ask Jesus he preaches the Gospel. The Way of Truth is the Pathway to the Eternal Godhead. - Jesus Christ I am not stupid are you? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/162 "2013-06-25T05:21:46Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > Let me see when the slave the slave needs to be protected like the property they are. Unless you are from Krypton and have a big red S on your chest you need to be protected. > [@marcmcroy](#): > > Yes the creator and I are one and God rules supremely ask Jesus he preaches the Gospel. > > The Way of Truth is the Pathway to the Eternal Godhead. - Jesus Christ Religious garbage. There’s no such thing as gods, and Jesus is dust. And no, you are not “the creator”, either. ---
**Author:** ![marcmcroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@marcmcroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marcmcroy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/163 "2013-06-25T05:22:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I’m afraid you will have to use the magic of technology to see the end result of that kind of magical thought when you eventually use those ideas in the real word: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7U5eJN3hLI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7U5eJN3hLI) > > [http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top\_stories/story/Idaho-man-Tased-in-court/IMGrKmGofkyauI\_Co3dR7w.cspx](http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/Idaho-man-Tased-in-court/IMGrKmGofkyauI_Co3dR7w.cspx) > You are warned. I am bound by honour first, sir . I am very respectful. I would not dishonour the courts as well. I am Honour bound. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/164 "2013-06-25T05:23:05Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > I believe it was the magic words that enslaved you. Conjured up a person that is not real or flesh but strictly a corporate entity to allow the flesh and blood to intermingle in the commerce corporate code and the Kayaker was correct in asking about the joinder to create the trust . It really is hocus pocus you elude to, its not real. My Creator is more apparent to me then this made up matrix paradigm you subscribe to. No, being outnumbered three hundred million to one is what enslaves you. What’s delusional is your belief that some magic words will change this. There’s two possibilities in life. Either we all live under a system of laws, in which case you’re subject to the same laws as everyone else. You don’t get to declare that you’re not subject to the laws but the laws have to protect you. You’re either in or out. And if you’re out, you’re like I described. You’re not subject to the laws but you’re also not protected by them. It all becomes a matter of who’s stronger. And that’s where the three hundred million to one odds come in. Unless you’re the last son of Krypton, you’re not going to win that fight. Finally, God isn’t your wingman. If he created the entire universe then he has no special interest in you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/165 "2013-06-25T05:23:09Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > joinder means just that that’s the exact thing i said bringing two parties together. No: > [@](#): > > Joinder is a legal term that refers to the process of joining two or more legal issues together to be heard in one hearing or trial. That is not “bringing two parties together”. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/166 "2013-06-25T05:23:41Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > thats an assumption mate erroneous at that. > Contractual law is what its all about. You haven’t been keeping up. Merely stating something does not make it true. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/167 "2013-06-25T05:43:03Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > If I don’t help protect the smallest of the smallest humans …then you are a perfect candidate to be a Freeman on the Land, since their entire raison d’etre is to remove the one and only thing that _actually_ protect the smallest of the small. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/168 "2013-06-25T05:46:27Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > I am bound by honour first, sir . I am very respectful. I would not dishonour the courts as well. I am Honour bound. For your sake I hope that that part is outside the magical thoughts. Although you don’t dig them, The Southern Poverty Law Center. linked already by \*\*BrainGlutton \*\*does point to the evidence and reasons why that movement you are considering has a lot of connections with racist groups. You are warned also of that. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/169 "2013-06-25T06:04:05Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > I am bound by honour first, sir . I am very respectful. I would not dishonour the courts as well. I am Honour bound. If you don’t believe in the power of the courts, you have no such “binding” under which you are required to “honour” them. If you recognize the need to honour the courts, then you recognize that the courts have some power and authority. You contradict yourself. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/170 "2013-06-25T06:09:04Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > Yes the creator and I are one OH you are God, that makes a bit more sense.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/171 "2013-06-25T06:58:40Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > OH you are God, that makes a bit more sense.:smack: It would certainly explain some things. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/172 "2013-06-25T07:11:34Z")
> [@colander](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > OH you are God, that makes a bit more sense. > > It would certainly explain some things. :smack: **God:**"The difference between statute and color or force of law and all the individual corporate courts and corporate status of ‘persons’! Beliefs can be changed but facts are facts. Right? It would be very harmful to the illusion if a court of record showed otherwise, wouldn’t you agree? What is PERSON? A man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the rights to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes. Who says freeloader where did that come from ? Just the opposite I dont want babies to die at the hands of a goverment employee it is you that want to dismiss good common moral laws to be safe in you gilded prison. We are our own answer to our own problems . and you silly cheezers want to kill a messenger that’s willing to take the heat of the first couple of blasts I don’t get it…And yes I want you to be free also and YOUR KIDS! Lemurs (i/ˈliːmər/ lee-mər) are a clade of strepsirrhine primates endemic to the island of Madagascar. The word “lemur” derives from the word lemures (ghosts or spirits) from Roman mythology and was first used to describe a slender loris due to its nocturnal habits and slow pace. Soooo you think you own your property now, thought you had a deed in trust your car is owned by the state you are the registered user so you personally helped write the state statutes we now have under color of law. I didn’t make this up mate. To me it seems like there was a magic act performed and the free people lost their in-a LIEN- able rights I am not looking for sanctuary in the occult, the blind folks are finding their persons in the superstitions that the government has your best interests at heart. Why do you keep saying law when it is statutes? " _\_ **Prophet 1:** :dubious: “…Make something up?” **Prophet 2:** “Make something up.” ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/173 "2013-06-25T07:24:29Z")
I actually do have some sympathy for you the freeman of the land guys/gals, at least to the extent that what you do is not motivated solely by greed (i.e., getting access to that big pot of cash money the government is keeping for you). If you are motivated by finding out what happened to society since the days where tribes/families wandered the land as they pleased and settled where they wished, well those small freedoms have been taken away and replaced by even greater benefits, by and large, and we are better off as individyuals and as a society these days, even if some of the duties expected of you, like paying taxes which supports causes that you don’t agree with, are onerous and distasteful to you. But there are no secret legal arcane fomulae that will give you the independant status that you want. They don’t exist. However you can go out Christopher McCandless style, give up all your property except the barest essentials, and that’s the closest you’ll get to a freeman of the land. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/174 "2013-06-25T09:00:05Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > But you are of the creator the creator is you. and you( we the people created the government) isnt it odd that the creator is bound by the created does that seem natural to you? I find that to be one of the strengths of our laws. The people who create laws should be willing to live under them. The problem is when people pass laws for others but declare themselves exempt. > [@marcmcroy](#): > > Now, whose the illiterate? Quoted for shits and giggles. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/175 "2013-06-25T09:32:06Z")
“I was a free man in Paris, I felt unfettered and alive. Nobody was calling me up for favours, no ones future to decide. You know I’d go back there tomorrow, but for the work I’ve taken on, stoking the star maker machinery, behind the popular song.” Joni Mitchell It’s always the sound track to these threads, in my head…it’s probably just me. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/176 "2013-06-25T09:46:46Z")
I seem to recall that God’s law contains some very specific instructions about rendering unto Caesar… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/177 "2013-06-25T09:56:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I seem to recall that God’s law contains some very specific instructions about rendering unto Caesar… He’s not, shall we say, fond of the CotUS’s Free Exercise Clause either! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/178 "2013-06-25T09:58:08Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > Whose laws are of the highest order? I believe Gods laws to be the of the highest order. The problem (for you) is that not everyone believes in your magical sky pixie. And then there are people who believe in different gods than yours. They all have there own version of “laws of the highest order” which are not exactly the same as yours. > [@](#): > > Why do you need state statutes forcing a person to wear your seat belt Because a lot of people are stupid and exercise poor judgement, thereby creating pain and suffering and requiring the rest of us to either support their paralyzed backside the rest of their days or bury the bits of their corpse and hose down the road afterward. And the rest of us got tired of the needless carnage. Although I hasten to point out that you don’t need to wear a seatbelt when driving on your private land. Really, you don’t. Hell, you don’t need a license to do that, either. It’s when you drive on public roads that the requirements kick in. Don’t want to wear a seat belt? You’re free to do without on your own land, where you are a free man. You are not, however, free to do that on land owned by anyone else. You’re a free man on YOUR land. You do not get to make up the rules for anyone else’s land. When you’re a free man on someone else’s land you need to live by their rules or leave. > [@marcmcroy](#): > > I believe it was the magic words that enslaved you. Conjured up a person that is not real or flesh but strictly a corporate entity to allow the flesh and blood to intermingle in the commerce corporate code and the Kayaker was correct in asking about the joinder to create the trust . It really is hocus pocus you elude to, its not real. My Creator is more apparent to me then this made up matrix paradigm you subscribe to. So… let me get this straight, you’re “free” because you made up this imaginary being in the sky and you accuse the government of “hocus pocus”? > [@marcmcroy](#): > > **Yes the creator and I are one** and God rules supremely ask Jesus he preaches the Gospel. You’re claiming to be god now? Somehow, I expected god to have a much better grasp of spelling and grammar, not to mention clearer composition and use of appropriate capitalization… > [@](#): > > I am not stupid are you? You’re not stupid. I suspect you may be delusional (see belief you are god) but not _stupid_ exactly… > [@Isamu](#): > > However you can go out Christopher McCandless style, give up all your property except the barest essentials, and that’s the closest you’ll get to a freeman of the land. So, is the whole dying in the back of an abandoned bus of starvation/freezing/possible unintentional consumption of poisonous wild foods a “bonus” feature of that existence? To paraphrase Hobbes, the life of a free man on the land would seem to be nasty, brutish, and short… ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/179 "2013-06-25T11:20:19Z")
Do you know who else wants their interpretation of God’s Will to be the supreme law of the land? That’s right, the Terrorists. If you deny that American laws apply to you, then the terrorists win. Why do you hate America? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826/180 "2013-06-25T12:14:09Z")
> [@marcmcroy](#): > > Contractual law is what its all about. You haven’t been keeping up. So here would be my question for you. Haven’t you entered a contract with the United States and your own state when you left you house and: Used a public road? Benefited from police patrols and traffic signals to make your drive safe? Driven while using a government issued driver’s license? Also: Did you ever attend public school in the United States? Benefit from any decision made by Congress, your state legislature, or local (city/county) government? In other words, why do you feel that contractually you get to benefit from living in the United States and yet do not have to reciprocate by obeying their laws? Are you willing to literally never leave you house (assume for a second that your not benefiting for government enforcement of contract law there) and enter into the US and give up fire/police protection of yourself, your property and your home? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toward-being-a-free-man-on-the-land/661826.md?page=10)