# Town/City names butchered by Americanization **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 9, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042 "2010-11-09T15:26:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/81 "2010-11-10T11:52:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Earl Snake-Hips Tucker** > > Lancaster pronounced “LANK-uh-ster” instead of “LAN-CAS-ter.” > > The first one approximates the [British](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancaster,_Lancashire) pronunciation. As a British person, I must register my disagreement. My pronunciation is _much_ closer to the second alternative. There may be some confusion (perhaps even on the part of Wiki editors) because of the name of the county, Lancashire, of which Lancaster is the county town. “Lancashire” is pronounced “LANK-uh-sheer.” ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/82 "2010-11-10T12:14:30Z")
Serious question: what has caused the erosion of in particular the much older francophone and Spanish names? One would imagine when these places were named they approximated the original pronunciation - yet there are so many mismatches, are we to assume that English speakers simply overwhelmed the original populations and pronounced it as it was spelled? Or is there something else going on? Another vote for “LAN-CAS-ter” as a Brit. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/83 "2010-11-10T12:24:03Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Another vote for “LAN-CAS-ter” as a Brit. I’m a Brit and I say it more like “LANG-kuh-stuh”, but then I’m a southerner. I believe the locals pronounce it as **jjimm** says. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/84 "2010-11-10T13:06:22Z")
Well, I am a southerner. (Admittedly, I did live in Yorkshire for quite a few years, but you can’t believe anything they say about Lancashire.) As I said, the confusion probably arises from the county name, which is probably heard a lot more often than the name of the city. Lancaster is, now, a relative small town in Lancashire, one of Britain’s most populous, and historically significant counties. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/85 "2010-11-10T14:12:50Z")
> [@](#): > > In some cases you just pronounce the beginning and end of the word and ignore the middle bit - common in the West Country with places like Woolfardisworthy (“WOOL-zer-ee”), Alverdiscott (“OLZ-cot”), Fowey (“FOY”) and Puncknowle (“PUN-nel”). And Featheringstoneshaugh is pronounced “FAN-shaw” which is just cheating at Scrabble. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/86 "2010-11-10T14:16:24Z")
Mississippi has a couple of strange ones - Saucier being the primary example. I always want to pronounce it SAW-see-er, but it’s pronounced sew-SHAY. Kosciusko is another: it’s a Polish name so it should be pronounced Ko-SHOE-sko. People here pronounce it kos-ee-ESS-ko. It does aggravate me when I hear a newscaster pronounce Biloxi buy-LOX-ee. I don’t even think you can buy lox down here. My husband got a kick out of me back when we were dating and he was driving around town: I asked him what a pas-SKAG-you-la was. (Pascagoula) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/87 "2010-11-10T14:19:58Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > And Featheringstoneshaugh is pronounced “FAN-shaw” which is just cheating at Scrabble. 😛 It’s spelled Featherstonehaugh. And you can’t use it in Scrabble as it’s a proper noun. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/88 "2010-11-10T14:25:55Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > One would imagine when these places were named they approximated the original pronunciation - yet there are so many mismatches, are we to assume that English speakers simply overwhelmed the original populations and pronounced it as it was spelled? Or is there something else going on? 1. It may not even have been by “English-speaking” populations, or these English-speaking folk may have been speaking it with a heavy foreign accent of their own 2. the names weren’t always given by speakers of the original language; for example, what a quick Google yields for Toledo, OH, tells me it was founded with that name by the union of two towns with perfectly Anglo-sounding names. Whomever picked the name may have pronounced it in English already (“toLEEdo”) at the time. 3. some of those original names are not pronounced the same way by all the speakers of the original language. For example Madrid, in Spanish-from-Spain, can go from mahDRIZ to mahDREE to mahDREEd; anything that’s got a C, Z or S may have similar problems (there’s even people who turn some final -s but not all into a spit-your-lungs-out J, harsher than the usual Spanish J). The Hialeah case is a sort of phonetic tennis game between three languages. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/89 "2010-11-10T14:53:57Z")
Montpelier hurts my ears. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/90 "2010-11-10T15:55:34Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > We have the Thames river, here in CT. Pronounced “Thaims”. Beat me to it. I did a double-take the first time I heard it pronounced. > [@velvetjones](#): > > I spent the first 5 years of my life in New Berlin, WI…pronounced New BUR-lin. We’ve got the town of Berlin, CT and it also sounds weird because the accent is on the first syllable (i.e. **BUR** -lin). > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I’m not sure about New Berlin, but I’ve been told by natives of Berlin, WI (different town, but also pronounced BUR-lin) that they changed the pronunciation from burr-LIN during one of the World Wars, when being German in the U.S. wasn’t terribly popular. Same story here in Connecticut. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/91 "2010-11-10T16:04:58Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Unless “Des Moines” is pronounced as something approximating “Day Mwahns” (and I’m not sure how it’s actually pronounced because I’ve never heard the name spoken by anyone from the US) then it’s been Anglicised/Americanised… Deh Moyn ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/92 "2010-11-10T16:36:07Z")
Not technically a town/city name, but I grew up in Chicago near Devon Ave, which is pronounced “de VAHN”. It was years before I found out that the county in England was pronounced “DE ven”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/93 "2010-11-10T16:48:14Z")
Delhi, Ohio – Dell-High > [@Zsofia](#): > > We’ve got a Beaufort (Bewe-furt) here in South Carolina. > [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Lancaster pronounced “LANK-uh-ster” instead of “LAN-CAS-ter.” These are based on standard British pronunciations. I think. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/94 "2010-11-10T17:04:01Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > These are based on standard British pronunciations. I think. Kind of. Lancaster has been discussed several times upthread. I’m not aware of any places called Beaufort in the UK, but BEW-furt would certainly be a plausible pronunciation, by analogy with Beaulieu (BEW-lee). The name Beauchamp, however, is generally pronounced “Beecham”, both as a surname and in place names such as Shepton Beauchamp. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/95 "2010-11-10T17:20:18Z")
It may be more regionalization than Americanization that can be blamed for some that I’ve found interesting: Pee-roo for Peru Kay-roh for Cairo Bah-li-ver for Bolivar Jur-dun for Jordan May-run for Marion Kay-diz for Cadiz Bew-furt for Beaufort Mye-lun for Milan Muffs-burr for Murfreesboro Huh-lee-nuh for Helena Mur-ree for Maury Sheb-vull for Shelbyville ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/96 "2010-11-10T17:34:41Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I agree with the LANG-kester pronunciation. It’s the way the locals say it and it’s the way I was taught to say it. Isn’t this pretty close to the original English pronunciation? ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/97 "2010-11-10T17:45:36Z")
Coeur d’Alene, Idaho - kor-da-LEEN ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/98 "2010-11-10T17:49:15Z")
We have more Indian names than foreign ones, but my brother lives in Moscow ID(moss cou) and there’s a Madras (mad-drass, almost sounds like mattress) OR. Then there’s Oregon, Ohio which is said so wrong that I’m not even going to say how they pronounce it. OK yes I am. It’s not Ore E Gone. It may be your town but there’s more Oregonians so say it right! I’ve only heard Beaufort said like Bew-furt, I didn’t know it was said another way. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/99 "2010-11-10T17:49:52Z")
And if you go to Newark, Delaware, don’t call it NOO-urk (or NYOO-urk) – that’s the city in New Jersey. It’s “Noo Ark”. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042/100 "2010-11-10T17:50:50Z")
In Kansas there is Marais de Cygnes, pronounced MARE-uh-du-ZEEN [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/town-city-names-butchered-by-americanization/560042.md?page=6)