# Toxins released from massage **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582 "2010-03-24T04:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/21 "2010-03-24T13:49:46Z")
A friend of mine went to Tennessee to become a massage therapist. She said that the state licensing test was lousy with pseudoscience and mumbo-jumbo that you were required to buy into to be certified. Can anyone else testify to such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![NOLA\_Cajun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea666f/32.png) [@NOLA\_Cajun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NOLA_Cajun)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/22 "2010-03-24T18:51:23Z")
This thread just removed some toxins from me. But I’m not going to tell you which ones because it’s obvious you’re not a believer. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/23 "2010-03-24T19:04:14Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > This thread just removed some toxins from me. But I’m not going to tell you which ones because it’s obvious you’re not a believer. Make sure to flush and wash your hands. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/24 "2010-03-24T19:32:01Z")
Can ‘woo’ be toxic? Oh and in regard to massage therapy in Tennessee, I can report that a good friend of mine who received his license back in 2008 was indoctrinated in a bunch of silly whacked out stuff. He came to me even though I am not an MD because he knew that I would know if what he had been taught was silliness. The guy is very intelligent but not formally trained in rational thinking. Once I had pointed him to the books in my library that dealt with his questions, he was quickly retrained and discarded many of the notions he had be taught. If I remember correctly, it wasn’t just toxins that were misunderstood, the concepts of meridians of chi as well as some serious indoctrination in Vitalism were an important part of the curricula. On the positive side, he did learn the names and functions of almost every bone and muscle in the human body, so at least he got that out of it. And, he is a very good masseur. Once the economy recovers, I expect he will be working in his field again. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/25 "2010-03-24T22:31:40Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > My wife had her first ever professional massage, and it was absolutely wonderful. I had one a few years ago and completely agree. > > There is one thing that was told to both of us though that I just can’t believe is actual science. We were both told we needed to drink lots of water to wash out the toxins released in the massage. > [@Duckster](#): > > [Random two-second Google search response about this myth](http://www.trisportsmassage.com/MythConceptionsArticle.html). Here’s the problem with the “random two-second Google search response” approach. **Spud** says, “I was told X by a professional masseuse.” **Duckster** responds with, “Here’s a website that refutes it,” and everyone’s happy. The problem? Presumably, the person giving the professional massage was a Licensed Massage Technician, or some reasonable equivalent thereof. Who wrote the article **Duckster** used? Maria Baffo, another Licensed Massage Technician. Had your random Google search have hit a different masseuse, you might have gotten the opposite answer (e.g., [Robin S](http://stanford.wellsphere.com/massage-spa-article/why-should-i-drink-a-lot-of-water-after-a-massage/4279).). To me, they have exactly the same credibility, and the question is not resolved. I figured that universities would have better credibility than random massage techs, so I tried limiting the Google search to .edu domains. Looking at the top results, it appears that the [UCSF Medical Center](http://campuslifeservices.ucsf.edu/fitnessrecreation/faq/massage/292), the [University of Nebraska](http://crec.unl.edu/massage/index.shtml), and [James Madison University](http://www.jmu.edu/recreation/Programs/Massage/index.html) all agree that you _should_ drink water after a massage. P.S. I don’t mean to be picking on **Duckster** here, but this is GQ, and the quality of the cites matters. P.P.S. I have no medical training or background whatsoever, and my cites may suck. But I tend to trust a college more than some random person on the street who claims to have appropriate credentials. ETA: The concensus seems to be that the “toxins” are lactic acids. Again, this ain’t my field, so I eagerly await correction by someone who knows better 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/26 "2010-03-24T23:13:23Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:25, topic:533582”] I figured that universities would have better credibility than random massage techs, so I tried limiting the Google search to .edu domains. Looking at the top results, it appears that the [UCSF Medical Center](http://campuslifeservices.ucsf.edu/fitnessrecreation/faq/massage/292), the [University of Nebraska](http://crec.unl.edu/massage/index.shtml), and [James Madison University](http://www.jmu.edu/recreation/Programs/Massage/index.html) all agree that you _should_ drink water after a massage. [/QUOTE] Your reasoning is flawed here, I think. All of those links are to providers of massage, not to any research. The fact that they are associated with a university makes them no less woo-woo. One claims that you need to replenish the fluid in your muscles. The James Madison cite says: > [@](#): > > Drinking extra water will help your body flush toxins and will prevent muscle soreness. Really? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/27 "2010-03-24T23:37:28Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > But lymph massage - done by correctly trained experts -… Hm. There are large concentrations of lymph nodes in the axillary and groin areas…can I have half a massage? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/28 "2010-03-25T03:08:13Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:25, topic:533582”] P.S. I don’t mean to be picking on **Duckster** here, but this is GQ, and the quality of the cites matters. [/quote] That’s OK. Your post doesn’t rub me the wrong way. 😃 For me, **Spud’s** initial post didn’t pass the smell test. On one level, drinking water after exercise, even massage, should be a good thing in terms of staying hydrated. But drinking water after massage in a manner that implies lubrication to move said toxins out of the body really floors me. IANAD. Putting aside the post about medical massage to motivate the lymphatic system, how does increased water intake after a massage flush toxins? My two-second Google search rendered massage links best addressed as he said, she said. \*\* Wombat’s\*\* concern is noted. At the same time, the apparent lack of credible cites should be an indicator that doesn’t smell right. My ten-second Google search revealed [this Quackwatch article](http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/massageschool.html) that briefly touches on the subject. I then found [this article from a doctor that pretty much calls massage to remove toxins bunk](http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400502/Eliminating-Toxins-With-Massage.html). He does go on to state that the body’s natural process are good enough to rid the body of toxins. He does say that one can improve the natural processes with a simple common sense approach: > [@](#): > > However, if you’re still concerned about toxins, I suggest taking saunas or steam baths, which can help eliminate them through sweating. Otherwise, your best bet is to help the body eliminate toxins naturally by increasing your intake of pure water to boost urinary output and eating plenty of fiber-rich fresh fruits, vegetables, and whole grains to ensure regular bowel movements. And take my daily antioxidant regimen, which includes vitamins C, E, mixed carotenes, and the mineral selenium, to help maintain your body’s natural defenses. > In addition, you might try herbs that help the body protect itself from common toxins. Some of the best-researched are concentrated extracts of green tea, ginger, turmeric, and milk thistle. Exercise, eat right and stay hydrated. Sounds simple. Unfortunately, too simple for some who appear to need a hook just to take money from you. Massage for its own sake? Good. Massage to ‘cleanse’ the body? Looks like another scam. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/29 "2010-03-25T14:56:14Z")
While physical therapy (i.e. massage) is used as one form of treatment for [lymphedema](http://www.oncologypt.org/mbrs/factsheets/LymphedemaFactSheetFinal.pdf) (such as people develop after removal of lymph nodes, radiation therapy, or due to scarring for a variety of reasons), commonly it’s done mainly to reduce infection risk and discomfort - not to remove “toxins”. As another poster noted, promotions of treatments supposedly removing nonspecific “toxins” should be taken skeptically. What are the “toxins”, are they actually toxic in the amounts present in the body, does their removal make you healthier/feel better, and does the treatment being promoted actually have any demonstrated effect on said toxins? Good luck with getting those questions answered satisfactorily. We’ve all got this wonderful organ called “the liver”, which does a nifty job of removing actual toxins and doesn’t need the help of quacks to do its job properly. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/30 "2010-03-25T15:36:37Z")
As a general rule of thumb, the first time “toxins” comes up in a conversation I write off the person speaking. The same is true for “chemicals”. Yep, give me some lettuce without chemicals. What will that look like, plasma? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/31 "2010-03-25T15:53:51Z")
I have heard that the purpose of a massage after exercising (besides feeling good) is to remove lactic acid. I’m not an expert in physiology, so I’d appreciate more knowledgeable people clearing this up. My understanding is that the old idea that lactic acid is the byproduct of muscle use, and that it is the cause of muscle soreness, is wrong. Lactic acid is the fuel that your muscle cells’ mitochondria use to do work. And muscle soreness is caused by physical damage to the muscles, which then gets repaired over the next couple of days. Is there some other byproduct that massage would help get rid of? Is there any evidence that massage helps reduce muscle soreness after exercise? My impression is that the benefit of massage is simply that it feels really good. I’m 48 years old and have still never had a professional massage, but I’ve been told that they feel just as good as getting a massage from someone you love. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/32 "2010-03-25T20:14:04Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > At the same time, the apparent lack of credible cites should be an indicator that doesn’t smell right. My ten-second Google search revealed [this Quackwatch article](http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/massageschool.html) that briefly touches on the subject. I then found [this article from a doctor that pretty much calls massage to remove toxins bunk](http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400502/Eliminating-Toxins-With-Massage.html). Now _those_ are some cites I can get behind. 😉 It did bother me that none of the results in the first couple of pages of Google results looked definitive and credible. > [@DanBlather](#): > > As a general rule of thumb, the first time “toxins” comes up in a conversation I write off the person speaking. The same is true for “chemicals”. I’m an Aquarius, so when I’m cleansing the toxins from my body with chemical-free vegan free-range hibiscus leaves, I make sure to use the lavender goat-pee aromatherapy. I’d do it in the pyramid room with my energy stones, but the feng shui in there is problematic. ---
**Author:** ![Bewildebeest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bewildebeest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bewildebeest)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/33 "2010-03-26T01:35:06Z")
If you’re not so much massaged as beaten, you could end up with [http://wapedia.mobi/en/Rhabdomyolysis](http://wapedia.mobi/en/Rhabdomyolysis) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/34 "2010-03-26T02:28:15Z")
Well, fatigue does cause a “toxin” in your muscles, so I suppose in a round about way, a good massage would help. But yes, staying hydrated is good. A few myths there; beer and coffee are indeed hydrating. Not as much as pure water of course. 100 proof booze or an expresso is likely - \*not so much. \*😛 ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/35 "2010-03-26T03:47:51Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:32, topic:533582”] Now _those_ are some cites I can get behind. 😉 It did bother me that none of the results in the first couple of pages of Google results looked definitive and credible. I’m an Aquarius, so when I’m cleansing the toxins from my body with chemical-free vegan free-range hibiscus leaves, I make sure to use the lavender goat-pee aromatherapy. I’d do it in the pyramid room with my energy stones, but the feng shui in there is problematic. [/QUOTE] I sure hope that is free range lavender goat pee. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/36 "2010-03-26T06:59:38Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > … I then found [this article from a doctor that pretty much calls massage to remove toxins bunk](http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400502/Eliminating-Toxins-With-Massage.html). He does go on to state that the body’s natural process are good enough to rid the body of toxins… That sounds like a good article, but it isn’t actually addressing the point of the OP. OP: > [@](#): > > We were both told we needed to drink lots of water to wash out the **toxins released in the massage.** Whereas the article linked discusses: “Eliminating-Toxins- **With** -Massage” 2 very different things. With respect to the OP, massage does cause quite a bit of chemical activity in the body, and while I don’t know if it’s correct to call stuff produced “toxins”, it’s possible that “waste” products are created. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/37 "2010-03-26T07:46:08Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > Hm. There are large concentrations of lymph nodes in the axillary and groin areas…can I have half a massage? I had my groinal lymph nodes palpated the other day and believe me, it is _not_ erotic. It’s deeply uncomfortable and occasionally painful. Anecdotally, massages definitely leave me feeling dehydrated. Wonder if it’s as simple a reason as the massage physically squeezing a teeny bit of water out of lots of fat and muscle cells? Also, I once had a massage after a few beers, and can absolutely vouch for the intensification of the effect of the alcohol. I began the massage not even slightly drunk, and staggered away thirty minutes later like a sailor after a 12 hour rum binge. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/38 "2010-03-26T07:53:35Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > I then found [this article from a doctor that pretty much calls massage to remove toxins bunk](http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400502/Eliminating-Toxins-With-Massage.html). He seems to contradict himself… > [@](#): > > Massage certainly can help address the build up of lactic acid in muscles, and promote the clearing of normal byproducts of muscle metabolism So he says massage can clear muscle byproducts…is that not toxins released from massage? > [@](#): > > If you are eating well, drinking enough water, and getting enough physical activity, your regular eliminations will be sufficient to keep the colon clean and in good working order. So he goes on to advocate drinking water… So the info we get here is that massage releases toxins into the bloodstream, and drinking adequate water helps eliminate them from the body. That seems to be pretty basic. I guess where people have a problem is where New Age frou-frou folk are claiming that not just muscle metabolic toxins, but also general toxins from the urban lifestyle are also getting stored in muscles and released during massage? Is this correct? If so, what is the current scientific alternative consensus on what happens with toxins of modern life? Also, what is the scientific consensus on why massage feels good, and why it tends to feel better after adequate hydration? ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/39 "2010-03-26T16:36:19Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > The fact that they are associated with a university makes them no less woo-woo. Tell me about it. The university I work for has not one, not two, but THREE classes on _“Healing Touch”_. :rolleyes: Granted, they aren’t full semester classes, they are literally one weekend each, but it still makes me angry, especially because they are listed in the health sciences department…argh! I’m half-tempted to write an angry letter to the editor of the school newspaper, but this part of the country is chock full of woo-woo, “alternative” (ie, fake) medicine, and crap like that that I’d probably get fired for doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582/40 "2010-03-26T18:34:02Z")
By the way - why, exactly, do “massage therapists” need to be certified in the first place? I mean, it’s not like they’re prescribing drugs, or operating on you. Barbershops need to get certified because there’s a risk of bodily fluids getting mucked about - but if you’re breaking skin with a massage, You’re Doing It Very, Very Wrong indeed. So why the fuss? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxins-released-from-massage/533582.md?page=3)