# Toxoplasmosis and wandering cats **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 28, 2006, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957 "2006-01-28T06:02:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jaderabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@jaderabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaderabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/1 "2006-01-28T06:02:55Z")
Glad to see Cecil addressing the toxoplasmosis problem. My husband and I have a great deal of trouble with the neighbors’ cats pooping in our garden beds. It’s pretty icky, and they’ve dug up young plants burying their poop. The big thing is, I’d really like to have a baby at some point, and it would be awfully nice not to have to give up working in my own garden until the as-yet-unconceived baby’s over a year old. I’ve mentioned CDC’s opinion on letting cats outside ([http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/toxoplasmosis/toxoplasmosis\_brochure\_8.2004.pdf](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/toxoplasmosis/toxoplasmosis_brochure_8.2004.pdf)), but the subtle tactics aren’t working on the neighbors. Has anyone had any luck persuading neighbors keep their wandering poop generators inside? If so, could you please share your strategy? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/2 "2006-01-28T13:43:12Z")
Since you’re mostly looking for advice about dealing with your neighbors rather than commenting on [what Cecil said about toxoplasmosis](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060127.html), I’ll move this thread to IMHO. That forum gets more traffic and I suspect you’lll get better responses there. Good luck. bibliophage moderator CCC ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/3 "2006-01-28T14:30:28Z")
Chances are good that you’ve already been infected - which is a good thing! Women who have antibiodies to toxo in their systems before conceiving don’t have to worry about passing the bugger onto their babies and casusing all the bad effects during pregnancy. Your doctor can order a test to see if you already have it and counsel you from there. As for your neighbors, no, I don’t have any diplomatic advice. You could try guilt : “I’m trying to get pregnant and your cats’ shit could make me lose my baby.” or you could be threatening: “If I see your cats on my property, I will call animal control,” but neither one is likely to be well-received. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/4 "2006-01-28T14:41:27Z")
May I suggest you bait and live-trap the cats, and bring them to the local animal shelter? Your neighbors are doing a great disservice to their pets by letting them roam. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/5 "2006-01-28T17:19:22Z")
> [@Winston Smith](#): > > May I suggest you bait and live-trap the cats, and bring them to the local animal shelter? Your neighbors are doing a great disservice to their pets by letting them roam. Um, no. Since you know perfectly well whose cats they are, you would be committing theft. And possibly risking their being euthanized. How about a fence around your garden? There are other options for keeping animals away. Anything involving water will discourage cats pretty quickly. As WhyNot says, you’re probably carrying antibodies already. I think there may be a test for this, but I’m not sure. You could ask your OB/Gyn when you get to the actual conception. Finally, AFAIK, the risk to the child is \*during \* pregnancy; not before, not after. So all that has to happen is for the mother-to-be to not dig in the garden during gestation. No big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/6 "2006-01-28T18:57:10Z")
Get some powdered red peppers, & sprinkle them near where Pussy Likes To Poop ( the title of the Long-Lost Dr. Seuss book??) If done liberally, during a dry period, Pussy will Pass on Pooping on your Parade. Unless he wear a hat. Then, all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/7 "2006-01-28T19:47:04Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Um, no. Since you know perfectly well whose cats they are, you would be committing theft. And possibly risking their being euthanized. I know whose cats they are? Can you prove that? And do you think these cats are better off getting run over by a speeding car, or being humanely euthanized? Seriously, your right to let your animals run free ends at the boundary of my property. If I were less civilized (and didn’t live in the 'burbs), I’d be plinking stray cats with a .22. ~ **Winston Smith** , Cat Hater. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/8 "2006-01-28T20:18:31Z")
Try sticking small sticks upright in your flower bed/garden. Some people have had good luck with citrus peels or mothballs. If there is a Petsmart near you, they may have a repellent you can use. Most of these have to be redone after a heavy rain. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/9 "2006-01-28T20:33:30Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Chances are good that you’ve already been infected - which is a good thing! Women who have antibiodies to toxo in their systems before conceiving don’t have to worry about passing the bugger onto their babies and casusing all the bad effects during pregnancy. Your doctor can order a test to see if you already have it and counsel you from there. So the only danger is if you have an _initial_ infection during pregnancy? There is no danger if you already have it? Are you sure? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/10 "2006-01-28T21:03:33Z")
> [@flight](#): > > So the only danger is if you have an _initial_ infection during pregnancy? There is no danger if you already have it? Are you sure? Don’t know for her, but I’m sure. In my parasitology class, zoonotic diseases was one of the things we talked about, and this was one of them. Not to say, we’ve had this discussion in other classes (vet school). Read the linked Cecil column. If you already had toxoplasmosis due to exposure, you already have the antibodies. If you’re not sure, you can ask your doctor to refer you for the titer test. If you have the antibodies, then you shouldn’t have any problem. Of course, if you want to tell someone else that you’re pregnant and that he/she needs to clean the litter box, then let it be that way, but you do not have to get rid of your pets because of that. Not to mention, the most common way for pregnant women to get toxo IS NOT cats, it’s handling raw meat contaminated with toxo. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/11 "2006-01-28T21:07:22Z")
Forgot to mention… The total time Toxoplasma gondii will be doing the rounds through your body is around 2 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/12 "2006-01-28T23:31:53Z")
Toxoplasmosis can affect a woman and baby even if there has been plenty of exposure before. My mother lost my younger sibling at 6 1/2 months pregnancy and the doctors were confident it was toxoplasmosis. She had owned cats her entire life. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/13 "2006-01-29T01:07:45Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Toxoplasmosis can affect a woman and baby even if there has been plenty of exposure before. My mother lost my younger sibling at 6 1/2 months pregnancy and the doctors were confident it was toxoplasmosis. She had owned cats her entire life. Did she definitely contract toxoplasmosis previously to her pregnancy? From the [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/toxoplasmosis/factsht_toxoplasmosis.htm): > [@](#): > > **Who is at risk for developing severe toxoplasmosis?** > > People who are most likely to develop severe toxoplasmosis include: > > -Infants born to mothers who became infected with Toxoplasma for the first time during or just before pregnancy. [snip] [A link to some .pdf pages](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/toxoplasmosis/default.htm): > [@](#): > > **How can it affect my unborn child?** > > If you are pregnant and become infected with the parasite for the first time during or just before your pregnancy, you can pass the infection to your unborn child even if you do not have any symptoms. They seem to be saying that it is only first time infections that matter. Still, why take chances? At your next doctor’s visit, you may want to discuss this, and maybe have yourself tested to see if you’ve already been infected. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/14 "2006-01-29T01:53:36Z")
> [@Winston Smith](#): > > I know whose cats they are? Can you prove that? > > And do you think these cats are better off getting run over by a speeding car, or being humanely euthanized? Seriously, your right to let your animals run free ends at the boundary of my property. If I were less civilized (and didn’t live in the 'burbs), I’d be plinking stray cats with a .22. > > ~ **Winston Smith** , Cat Hater. I was responding to the OP, which said, in part: > [@](#): > > My husband and I have a great deal of trouble with the neighbors’ cats… So, yes, in the case mentioned, they said they knew exactly whose cats they were. Ergo, capturing them and turning them over to be euthanized would be IMHO cruel and probably theft, since you would be taking something you know belongs to another person. FWIW, I agree that it’s better to keep cats indoors for a lot of reasons. Being hit by a car is the least of the dangers. The solution is NOT to steal them and do away with them yourself. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/15 "2006-01-29T04:03:58Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Toxoplasmosis can affect a woman and baby even if there has been plenty of exposure before. My mother lost my younger sibling at 6 1/2 months pregnancy and the doctors were confident it was toxoplasmosis. She had owned cats her entire life. Yes, but one may own cats and never become infected, or become infected for the first time after years of owing cats. It’s unlikely, but possible. And that’s why I said “chances are good you’ve already been infected” not “I’m positive you’ve already been infected.” Considering the conditions of the poop in question (dried out and being dug in), it’s much more likely that a toxo has gotten pulverized, airborne and inhaled than even a regular situation of an owner and a frequently emptied, moist litterbox. There is indeed a test, and your doctor can set it up. And yes, I’m sure about it not generally being dangerous to get toxo outside of pregnancy (There are some possible dangers, as outlined by Cecil, but they have nothing to do with a fetus, obviously). It’s the toxins produced in those two weeks of initial infection that are so dangerous. If you’ve already been exposed and got the antibodies to prove it \*before \*you conceive, your baby is not at risk. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/16 "2006-01-29T04:20:18Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > And yes, I’m sure about it not generally being dangerous to get toxo outside of pregnancy People who are immunocompromised, like those living with HIV, are very much at risk for toxoplasmosis. I’m surprised that wasn’t mentioned in the column. ---
**Author:** ![Stainz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Stainz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stainz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/17 "2006-01-29T07:12:26Z")
When I was pregnant I read lots of books etc and they all advised to garden with gloves on to avoid a potential problem with toxoplasmosis exposure. You may want to wear one of those disposable dust mask thingies? Or just not garden - I put in annuals this year during my pregnancy and just watered them - they didn’t even need weeding because I used a flower box. I didn’t put in a herb garden like I usually do. ---
**Author:** ![jaderabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@jaderabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaderabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/18 "2006-01-30T04:06:15Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Finally, AFAIK, the risk to the child is \*during \* pregnancy; not before, not after. So all that has to happen is for the mother-to-be to not dig in the garden during gestation. No big deal. I wish it were that simply. “Trying to get pregnant” generally means months or years of trying. You have only about two weeks at a time when you know you’re not pregnant (and according to another poster, that’s about the length of time toxo lives in the system). So if you’re trying to get pregnant, it’s best to basically behave as if you already are pregnant. That could be an awfully long time of not doing any gardening. Children up to the age of one year are at risk, too, according to my doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Stainz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Stainz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stainz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/19 "2006-01-30T05:07:22Z")
Has anyone mentioned pine cones to deter the cats? (They don’t like walking on them). Also there are apparently plants that cats don’t like - you could plant those around your garden’s perimeter. Also, Lee Valley sells a product called “Cat Scat” that you lay down and it’s prickly and it will keep the cats off. Or if it is such a concern, you may decide that gardening is not worth the risk. ---
**Author:** ![jaderabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@jaderabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaderabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957/20 "2006-01-30T05:45:07Z")
> [@Stainz](#): > > Has anyone mentioned pine cones to deter the cats? (They don’t like walking on them). > > Also there are apparently plants that cats don’t like - you could plant those around your garden’s perimeter. > > Also, Lee Valley sells a product called “Cat Scat” that you lay down and it’s prickly and it will keep the cats off. > > Or if it is such a concern, you may decide that gardening is not worth the risk. Thanks for the many suggestions. We’ve tried a number of different things–citrus peels, cat repellents, various kinds of pepper, prickly things around the edges of the beds–but nothing’s done the job so far. Most of it washes away, and even when we’ve gotten some measure of success in one bed, the cats have taken to pooping in another part of the yard. It’s a good-size yard (yeah, yeah, poor us) and we both work full-time, so going out every day to sprinkle the perimeter is not feasible. It’s also kind of annoying to spend a lot of your time and money on keeping other people’s pets off your property. It _is_ our garden, and I do think we should be able to enjoy it without fear of disease caused by the neighbors’ animals. Of course, if the only way to be safe is to do no gardening until a year after the as-yet-unconceived child is born, then that’s what we’ll do. But that seems a bit extreme, and I was really hoping someone could suggest a tactful approach to take with the neighbors. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toxoplasmosis-and-wandering-cats/341957.md?page=2)