# Toynbee Ideas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 8, 1999, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806 "1999-10-08T16:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 1999, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/1 "1999-10-08T16:52:00Z")
While in New York awhile back, I became aware of these strange plaques embedded in the asphalt of certain vusy intersections. They read “Toynbee ideas in Kubrick’s 2001 Resurrect dead on Planet Jupiter”. Cryptic, isn’t it? Is this the result of some weird cult? Is it mass paranoia? What the heck is it?!? * * * * * * “Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true” -Albert Einstein ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 1999, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/2 "1999-10-08T16:59:00Z")
Hell if I know. But I found this: [http://www.temple.edu/~woneill/sidewalk.html](http://www.temple.edu/~woneill/sidewalk.html) They don’t know either, but they’ve done some good documentation. -andros- * * * “Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!” Exceptions? None! -Doc Bronner ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 1999, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/3 "1999-10-09T05:33:00Z")
Probably not related, but Bradbury had a short story “The Toynbee Convector,” which was about time travel. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 1999, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/4 "1999-10-09T02:20:00Z")
There’s one of these signs in the sidewalks of downtown DC, too. I can’t recall where, but I think it’s along K Street, west of the Farragut North metro stop. I think. I haven’t seen it in a few years, but I imagine it’s still there. Any other DC locals care to help me remember where it is? ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 1999, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/5 "1999-10-09T03:06:00Z")
Looks like art to me. The artist is probably from the Tyler School of Art at Temple. Someone in Philly should investigate the address given at the Chile location. (see chart at andros’s link). What does it mean? I don’t know if it really means something or it is just pretending to. My partner, a Mr. A/V Club, suggests it might have been a remark overheard on the street. The crazy people who talk to themselves come up with some pretty interesting theories. ---
**Author:** ![Nickrz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@Nickrz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nickrz)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 1999, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/6 "1999-10-10T10:13:00Z")
Wow. A real mystery, here on the Straight Dope MB? This one deserves Cecil’s attention, imho… ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2000, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/7 "2000-06-28T18:26:59Z")
Nickrz used to be a moderator, right? Did he pass this one along to Unca Cecil? I’d been off the board for a while now, but I’m back, not that anyone remembers me. But, I’m working in downtown DC now and I pass these Toynbee/Kubrick signs everyday. It’s really starting to make me wonder what they are. A new monolith, maybe? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayron\_32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/41988e/32.png) [@jayron\_32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayron_32)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2000, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/8 "2000-06-28T18:43:50Z")
Creepy. I’ll have to keep my eye open for one. I must say, however, that I would LOVE for Unca Cece to do an article on this one. Hell, he did one on Sperm Trees, and this is FAR more intriguing, IMHO. I’ve never seen one of these signs around Chicago, but we’re a little behind the times here… Is there any way to put this idea on the top of cecil’s inbox? I’m sure he would find it interesting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2000, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/9 "2000-06-28T19:14:16Z")
There are some of these in Chicago. There’s a worn-down one around the corner from my office, in Adams just east of Wells. I recall seeing another in Jackson Blvd. just west of Michigan Avenue. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2000, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/10 "2000-06-28T20:10:18Z")
Gotta check in with this one. I’ve seen 'em both in DC (14th and k NW - walk past it almost every day), which is just a plain white one with the letters cut out, and in Chicago, somewhere in the Loop (Lake Shore Drive, near Roosevelt U, IIRC) - this one was much more ornate, with some extra writing, a pair of women’s legs and something else I couldn’t identify. All in color. I seem to remember the style of writing in both plaques did not vary in the least, suggesting to me some sort of template was used, or several templates cut and distributed. I’ve often wondered what the hell it was all about, and they look like they’ve been there for years. ---
**Author:** ![Gunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gunslinger)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2000, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/11 "2000-06-28T20:32:08Z")
Sounds like the work of [insert your favorite conspiracy theory here] to me. ---
**Author:** ![Koffing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@Koffing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koffing)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2000, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/12 "2000-06-28T21:01:19Z")
There’s actually one in Pittsburgh, too. IIRC, it’s on the corner of Smithfield and 6th Downtown. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/13 "2000-07-15T05:51:39Z")
Let me kick this over to Cecil’s inbox. Now, that’s no guarantee that something will happen . . .but you never can tell. your humble TubaDiva Administrator Who used to see these same things in the Village . . . and wondered what the hell it was about. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/14 "2000-07-15T06:20:16Z")
The [_Baltimore Sun_](http://www.tiagoteixeira.com.br/toynbee/baltimoresun.htm) had an article on the subject in 1994. > [@](#): > > It seems obvious they have something to do with Stanley Kubrick’s classic movie, “2001: A Space Odyssey,” and the teachings of the late British historian, Arnold Toynbee. In some of his writings, Toynbee implied some sort of religious regeneration. The movie – starring HAL the computer and > that funky monolith – implies something about regeneration on Jupiter. These Toynbee signs are found in Buenos Aires (in English) and Rio de Janeiro (in ungrammatical Portuguese), according to [http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/3790/geobook.html](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/3790/geobook.html) ---
**Author:** ![AmyG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AmyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmyG)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/15 "2000-07-15T06:52:57Z")
Man! I wasn’t sure what people were talking about when they were referring to these things, but then I clicked on the link and realized that I, too, have seen them in DC (though I can’t recall where). I always assumed, having never been well-versed in Toynbee or Kubrick’s Clarke adaptations, that they were the work of one of the many random nuts that populate downtown DC. Bill Clinton’s watching you through your TV set? LaRouche is the country’s savior? OK, Toynbee’s ideas could be resurrecting the dead on Jupiter, too. There again, most of the other random nuts I used to see in DC didn’t seem likely to travel enough to bring their messages along the northeastern seaboard, let alone South America. I do recall that there was some sort of regeneration on Jupiter or one of its moons in Arthur C. Clarke’s 2010 book, but having read it over a decade ago, and having never seen the film adaptation, I’m afraid I can’t throw any more illumination onto the subject. –Amy ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/16 "2000-07-15T13:45:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TubaDiva \* > \*\*Let me kick this over to Cecil’s inbox. > > Now, that’s no guarantee that something will happen . . .but you never can tell. > > your humble TubaDiva > Administrator > Who used to see these same things in the Village . . . and wondered what the hell it was about.\*\* I recently discovered another one of these signs right outisde my office (15th and Eye St. in DC) and it’s going to bug me until Cecil gets the Straight Dope on the origin. I’m not half as concerned about the meaning as I am the source. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/17 "2000-07-15T21:46:30Z")
I think its a small, geographically diverse group of art students or something along those lines. A semi-organized group with members willing to travel and access to some rather specialized materials available in major cities could easily pull off something like this. The fact that the Portuguese was ungrammatical convinces me that they may well be a group of Americans with translation programs/booklets and plenty of plane tickets (all the cities to far mentioned are very close to major airports). Maybe it’s a publicity stunt of some kind. More likely it’s just a group of weirdos out to cause people to go ‘What?’. With the anonymity inheirent in the internet (planning and organization, perhaps material purchasing and plane/motel bookings) and major airports and highways (doubtless the prime modes of transport) we may never know. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2000, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/18 "2000-07-15T21:47:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > \*\*I think its a small, geographically diverse group of art students or something along those lines. A semi-organized group with members willing to travel and access to some rather specialized materials available in major cities could easily pull off something like this. The fact that the Portuguese was ungrammatical convinces me that they may well be a group of Americans with translation programs/booklets and plenty of plane tickets (all the cities to far mentioned are very close to major airports). Maybe it’s a publicity stunt of some kind. More likely it’s just a group of weirdos out to cause people to go ‘What?’. With the anonymity inheirent in the internet (planning and organization, perhaps material purchasing and plane/motel bookings) and major airports and highways (doubtless the prime modes of transport) we may never know. \*\* And, if figuring this out isn’t Unca Cece’s job, I don’t know what is. ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/19 "2000-07-16T01:57:26Z")
It’s funny, but I just thought of these again the other day; I’ve never seen one, but I do find them fascinating. **Andros’s** link is to a page of sightings. Next to the one for Santiago Chile it says: “Spotted by Christian Soto who notes that it contains an address: Toynbee A. 2624 S. 7th Philadelphia, PA. 19148-4610 USA” I looked up the address in Streets™ and it’s a real address on the South side. Do we have any Philly Dopers who could check out this address and report back? (A NY Doper would do in a pinch, as long as we don’t have to kick in for train fare.) It still looks like art to me - sort of urban crop circles. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/20 "2000-07-16T02:02:43Z")
I’m in Maryland, aseymayo, and I go to Philly at least once a month (it’s just two hours from here). If I get a chance next time I’m there – or a Philly doper can’t make it first – I’ll try to check it out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806.md?page=2)