# Toynbee Ideas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 8, 1999, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806 "1999-10-08T16:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/21 "2000-07-16T02:55:28Z")
Look at the list of cities in which these signs are found which is given in the website mentioned in the second post (the one by andros) above. The only small cities are Aberdeen and Edgewood in Maryland (north of Baltimore). I conjecture that whoever created these signs lives near there (or possibly in Philadelphia or its southern suburbs). This is within easy driving distance of the signs in Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, and Atlantic City (as well as Aberdeen and Edgewood). It’s within reasonable driving distance of New York, Pittsburgh, Boston, and possibly Cleveland. Only Indianapolis is a solid day’s drive away. Of course, that still leaves the question of why there are signs in Santiago, Buenos Aires, and Rio de Janeiro. If it wasn’t for the signs in South America, I would say that it’s clearly the work of some nutcase rather than some wierd performance art by art students. I would think that art students would come up with something cleverer and would be able to do more of these signs (and in more cities). Maybe it’s some nutcase who took a trip to South America. ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/22 "2000-07-16T03:11:27Z")
Cool, **Montfort** , but be careful. The Toynbee signs have been around for years, so it’s possible whomever the address referred to has long since moved on. The “Toynbee A.” could be a reference to Arnold Toynbee, or it could be a real person. While you’re there, you could peek in the Philly phone book in case there’s an Angela Toynbee - owner of Toynbee’s Custom Street Paint. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/23 "2000-07-16T15:20:16Z")
**aseymayo** : Well, I wasn’t planning on knocking on any doors and saying “Hey, are you the Kubrick/Toynbee guy?” I just checked [whitepages.com](http://whitepages.com) and there’s no A. Toynbee in Philadelphia, nor in any other state. The fact that the address on one of the signs has a Zip+4 zip code leads me to think that it was somewhat recently made (last 10 years or so?) I first saw the ones in downtown DC in 1995 or so, but they sure didn’t look new then, so…? **Wendell Wagner** : Your theory sounds good to me about a Lone Signmaker. (Can you tell I’m hoping I get to help Unca Cece in his quest to solve this mystery? 🆒 ) ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2000, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/24 "2000-07-16T16:07:22Z")
Another interesting link on the subject [http://astro.temple.edu/~woneill/toynbee.html](http://astro.temple.edu/~woneill/toynbee.html) ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2001, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/25 "2001-01-06T06:32:49Z")
Montfort, after reading links and doing some searching, this seems alot like the “Andre the Giant has a posse” thing. In fact, I’m thinking of making a few plaques myself, and applying them in front of Crowne Center, at 11th and Grand, places like that. Sounds like fun, like Urban Guerillaing. –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2001, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/26 "2001-01-06T16:03:45Z")
Andre the Giant had a posse? Please enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/27 "2001-01-07T00:13:15Z")
At least we can answer the Andre the Giant Question [Andre](http://www2.msstate.edu/~cbh8/andre.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/28 "2001-01-07T05:25:59Z")
It gets better. [http://www.andrethegiant.com](http://www.andrethegiant.com) ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/29 "2001-01-07T05:59:28Z")
Yeah I already knew all about the Andre thing. It really kicks ass, eh? 😉 From a webpage, about the Toynbee thing. > [@](#): > > The highlight of my search for answers to this mystery occured one Sunday night of this previous winter. I had gone to my local convenience store for a snack around 4:00 A.M., noticing nothing unusual. On my way home I noticed something unusual in the street. Upon closer inspection, I discovered it to be a “Toynbee Idea” tile - freshly placed and only minutes old. Of course I was beside myself with exitement and I could now see exactly how, and of what materials these tiles are made. [snip] The tiles are just that - tiles…although not the standard vinyl floor tile, as I had suspected. The letters are cut out of a material with, I assume, a higher rubber content than a standard floor tile. The inlay letters seemed to made from a less maleable substance, and in this case were red and yellow. The tile is secured to the street by intricately folded and layered tar paper, glued together. A layer of raw tar seemed to lie beneath the whole tile, anchoring it. The weight of cars, as they run over the tile, forces the layers of tar paper to impregnate the spaces in the cracks of the letters. As time passes, and cars as well as the elements do their job, the tile becomes imbedded into the street - totally unmovable since the rubber forms a tight bond with the asphalt. Of course the tar paper dissapears in a few days but the tar itself remains, working to secure the message into the street. So this appears to be how they are made and applied. He goes on to say > [@](#): > > Well, I went to that address [in Philly] and knocked on the door, but no luck. The current occupants bought the house about a year and a half ago and had no idea who may have lived there previously. So the address is apparently a dead end, unless you wanna look at previous renters or deed transfers, I guess. He continues on about his experience in Philly: > [@](#): > > However - in this same south philly neighborhood I saw and photographed many “experimental” tiles. These looked > to e to be “tests” conducted by the tile maker in an attempt to perfect a method. Some even had inlays of metal or glass! The messages mostly consisted of random letters - XOC\>\>,etc. These are around the area of 8th. & Shunk St. In Philly. [snip] Many of the Philly tiles I photographed have since been tarred over or destroyed - of particular interest is a panel of four tiles formerly on 16th. & Chestnut in Philly. They contain PARAGRAPHS of paranoid rant centering around the Philadelphia Inquirerer and John Knight. My photos are all color close-ups so that every detail and nuance is visible. I photographed the tile on Arch street as i peeled it halfway up, to give a visual record of how it is placed. At any rate, I have gone on long enough, and if you have had the attention span to read this, God bless you. I will not take up more of your time with my own theories on what the message may mean. Minor spelling corrections made throughout, by myself. This is taken from [here](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/3790/geobook.html), and was originally written by [Justin K.](mailto:eulogycontact@hotmail.com) Hope you enjoy. –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2001, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/30 "2001-01-07T06:07:26Z")
Okay, more stuff from another [here](http://www.tiagoteixeira.com.br/toynbee/baltimoresun.htm) says that > [@](#): > > But just recently, a fresh Toynbee sign appeared at the intersection of Calvert and Redwood streets. Instead of the usual white lettering, this marker is cast boldly in blue and orange. And to further taunt us, there’s additional scribbling: > > You Must Make + Clue Tile!! You!! As Media U.S.S.R. Odd. Perhaps he’s telling people to make and spread tiles? [This site](http://www.cog.jhu.edu/grad-students/davidson/toynbee.html) has a list of all the known sites of the tiles, if you’d like to take a look. I think I’ll email him about the address and how they’re made (he asks for the info on his site). [Here’s a picture of the plaques](http://www.singmind.com/singleminded/199910/toynb.jpg). More later. Gotta go. Feds are after me. –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2001, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806/31 "2001-01-08T05:23:19Z")
Wrote a long ass post. Netscape crashed. Attempt to reconstruct. Anyway, these plaques appear to believe that Jupiter is a dead planet, and can be resurrected using Toynbee’s ideas, as shown in “A Space Odyssey.” They also contain many, many rantings about someone being out to get “me,” “me” being the creator of the plaques. Another odd twist is that the main theme to “A Space Odyssey” is a song called “Thus Spoke Zarathustra,” Zarathustra being an alternate translation of the name Zoroaster. Toynbee was a religious fanatic, and railed against the idea of monotheism, of which Zoroaster is credited as being an originator of. Some information gleamed from [here](http://www.tiagoteixeira.com.br/toynbee/backgroundresearch.htm) [This](http://babel.altavista.com/translate.dyn?lp=pt_en&doit=done&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tiagoteixeira.com.br%2Ftoynbee%2Flocalizacao.htm) should translate, through Babelfish (From Portugese) some of the other rantings found on Toynbee boards. For some reason, it inserts a space in the address. Click the link, go to your address bar, delete the space between b and r in the address (at .com.br) and hit enter, then hit translate. Some boards are from the tile I talked about previously, apparently some are from the paint used to mark roads, and others are pressed into the asphalt, and made of a hard plastic. It appears that the boards are sufficiently similar to have been cut from a mold, stamped, or painstakingly cut, by hand, by the same person. I’m guessing they were stamped. Some of the ranting is about a plot between Russian nationals, and American reporters, disguised as Mafioso…? Three plaques in Manhattan are known to contain the phrase “Murder every journalist I beg you.” These plaques, of which there are more than 120 documented (and probably dozens still unknown), appear soon after street resurfacing in most Baltimore intersections. Perhaps the best way to find out who (or what) does it is to find out when a street containing a plaque is to be resurfaced, then camp out, well hidden, waiting for a person to plant a new one. Catch and confront the person. Maybe they’re just another rube playing the same game we are. Who knows? The best lead so far is that these are inspired by David Mamet’s play, [Goldberg Street](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0802151043/qid%3D957531134/sr%3D1-1/105-8420186-9999927), or possibly that Mamet knew of the plaques and incorporated them into his play. While not directly related, I’d be a fool if I didn’t think [this page](http://www.brunel.ac.uk/research/virtsoc/GRpapers/dean.htm) didn’t have anything to do with the plaques. A few more sites on the matter (seeing as how woneill’s no longer works) are [here](http://nimbus.temple.edu/~woneill/sidewalk.html) is woneill’s NEW site. This also includes an exhaustive list of the plaques, locations, and types, with many pictures and descriptions of the differences. There appears to be a building named Toynbee Hall on Manhattan’s lower east side (near his appendix, possibly. ;)). Mortimer Toynbee is an X-person known as Toad. Seen in X-Men the movie, and many comics. Some of the original plaques appear to be as old as 30 years! I’ll try to find out some more later. –Tim [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toynbee-ideas/3806.md?page=1)