# Toyota stuck gas pedal - Just take it out of gear!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734 "2010-02-04T23:04:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/41 "2010-02-05T15:06:54Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > Is neutral used for anything in a modern automatic car? Most people only use Park and Drive. I’m not surprised at all that people wouldn’t be familiar with neutral. Neutral is the gear you put the car in anytime it needs to be moved _not_ under its own power, such as pushing a stalled car out of traffic or pulling it onto the bed of a flatbed tow truck (the latter of which, I’m sorry to say, I have had recent experience with). ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/42 "2010-02-05T15:25:45Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > -The car had an automatic transmission with sequential shifting capability. Look at the shift tree in [this photo](http://www.lexus.com/models/ES/features/performance/sixspeed_automatic_transmission.html): if you’re in seq-shifting mode, pushing the shifter toward “N” functions as an upshift. Again, not being familiar with the particulars of this car (since it was a loaner), the driver may not have known how to get it out of seq-shift mode and into standard mode, making it impossible to find neutral. This is the most likely explanation, the upshifter is a simple nudge toward N as opposed to pushing it all the way into Neutral. This may have confused the driver and he eliminated it because the last thing he wanted to do was upshift with the engine racing. I have been in situations where my brakes have failed and used the transmission and parking brake to stop but I can only imagine how shocking it would be to have your accelerator rev up uncontrollably. I have an image in my head of staring at the speedometer rising rapidly and thinking WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/43 "2010-02-05T15:26:10Z")
I didn’t know about shifting into neutral until I read this thread. None of you have ever had a hard time figuring out how to turn on the headlights in a rental car? Or tried to shift with the windshield wipers, if you’re used to a gearshift on the steering column? Or pulled up to the wrong side of a gas pump? > [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Neutral is the gear you put the car in anytime it needs to be moved _not_ under its own power, such as pushing a stalled car out of traffic or pulling it onto the bed of a flatbed tow truck (the latter of which, I’m sorry to say, I have had recent experience with). Cars have gotten more reliable. There are people who have driven for years but _don’t_ have experience with those things. > [@Novelty Bobble](#): > > When you drive, or perform any repeating action you get stuck into what is called an “auto-sequence”. > This means that you do things without conscious thought thus freeing up brain space to deal with other things, like avoiding sabre-toothed tigers etc. > The problem comes when this previously predictable system starts behaving in an unexpected way. Jumping out of that auto-sequence is not easy. You get confused and panic. You lose the ability to think rationally and would not necessarily find it easy to perform a “check-list” of solutions. I think this might also be what happened to the people who had to be told how to get out of the car when the power door locks weren’t working. They may have gotten confused and panicked. People don’t think straight when they’re panicking. These same people might know, under normal circumstances, that they could manually unlock the doors, but not think of it in a moment of panic. > [@Gbro](#): > > with a level head That’s not something everybody is going to have in this kind of situation. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/44 "2010-02-05T15:38:36Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I didn’t know about shifting into neutral until I read this thread. > > None of you have ever had a hard time figuring out how to turn on the headlights in a rental car? Or tried to shift with the windshield wipers, if you’re used to a gearshift on the steering column? Or pulled up to the wrong side of a gas pump? > > Cars have gotten more reliable. There are people who have driven for years but _don’t_ have experience with those things. > > I think this might also be what happened to the people who had to be told how to get out of the car when the power door locks weren’t working. They may have gotten confused and panicked. People don’t think straight when they’re panicking. These same people might know, under normal circumstances, that they could manually unlock the doors, but not think of it in a moment of panic. > > That’s not something everybody is going to have in this kind of situation. ``` I hate to break it to you but the driver is responsible for the care, control, and operation of any vehicle they drive whether they rent, own or lease. There is no room for ignorance here. ``` All the information you require is included in the owner’s manual found in the glove compartment of almost every car. I realize we all neglect it (even myself, sometimes) but I can’t stress strongly enough that everyone should read theirs, there is invaluable information in there that could save you time, money, and possibly lives. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/45 "2010-02-05T15:46:26Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > This is the most likely explanation, the upshifter is a simple nudge toward N as opposed to pushing it all the way into Neutral. This may have confused the driver and he eliminated it because the last thing he wanted to do was upshift with the engine racing. My husband and I often rent cars on vacation, and once got a car with the push-button/proximity ignition and the upshifter. We knew the upshifting was a feature of this car - as he drove out of the lot, I was leafing through the car manual to check out the specs - and so he had fun playing with the upshifter, but there were a few times where he would screw up with shifting when he was trying to do something that would be “normal” on an automatic transmission but he had it in this sport mode. I can easily see why someone unfamiliar with it would be at a complete loss in an emergency. We also had to find the attendant at the rental lot to figure out how to turn the car on. :smack: I’m not sure we could have figured out how to turn it off while driving. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/46 "2010-02-05T16:03:38Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Cars have gotten more reliable. There are people who have driven for years but _don’t_ have experience with those things. I’m not sure if I understand your point here. **SmackFu** seemed ignorant of what the purpose of neutral was, and I was trying to fight that. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/47 "2010-02-05T16:14:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Most people would have figured it out but this was a Lexus rental and they don’t use a conventional shift lever. [This is what a Lexus uses](http://assets.clickmotive.com/ail/stills_white_0640/6197/6197_st0640_087.jpg). Yes, but the N is right in line with the D. You can still slap it into neutral like they teach you in driver’s ed. You don’t need to push a button or even look, just slap it. > [@Anne Neville](#): > > I didn’t know about shifting into neutral until I read this thread. No, really. This is mind boggling to me. We got an entire lesson devoted to this in driver’s ed, both in class and in the car. It was covered _again_ when they taught us what to do if your brakes fail. ETA: I got my driver’s ed training in the midwest, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/48 "2010-02-05T16:16:11Z")
From the LA Times: “As for its (NHTSA) position that brakes can always overcome a vehicle’s engine, the safety agency and Toyota **now acknowledge that a braking system cannot always counter a wide-open throttle, as is the case in sudden acceleration.** ” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/49 "2010-02-05T16:16:35Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > I hate to break it to you but the driver is responsible for the care, control, and operation of any vehicle they drive whether they rent, own or lease. There is no room for ignorance here. I don’t think **Anne** was arguing that people aren’t responsible for knowing these things. She was just pointing out that natural human laziness and cluelessness sometimes interferes with our learning these things, and that many modern cars are so reliable and easy to operate under normal circumstances that we can get away without knowing these things. Until one of these life-threatening emergencies strikes, and then our ignorance can kill us. ---
**Author:** ![Hairy\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecc23a/32.png) [@Hairy\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hairy_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/50 "2010-02-05T16:18:54Z")
At the end of the day it is the driver’s responsibility to familiarise themselves with the operation of all the controls, certainly the major ones, before even moving an unfamiliar vehicle, let alone driving it down a freeway. Not that the fault can lay entirely with the driver; manufacturers are increasingly guilty of overcomplicating things which either work perfectly fine as a simple, functional design, or are just unnecessary. Things like the method of starting and stopping the engine, for years a simple key was plenty good enough, then all of a sudden car makers decided that rather than turning a key, a mechanism which the vast majority of the car driving populace are intimately familiar with, we would much rather insert a lump of plastic in a hole, then press a button. Until some smartass decided that the insertion of lumps of plastic was far too much effort for the discerning driver in these days of having computers do everything for us (cruise control, sat nav, power windows etc.) and that we should have no need to even remove the fob from our pockets. /will stop ranting now, not good for the blood pressure, but would like to offer condolances to anyone affected by these tragic occurances, and lets hope Toyota pull their collective fingers out and either fix the problem or pull the cars off the roads before any more people have to get hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/51 "2010-02-05T16:20:04Z")
Bah! Missed the edit: So with the upshift, do you go _to_ N or is it just part way _towards_ N? ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/52 "2010-02-05T16:49:10Z")
Wow. So glad I drive a manual. And now I have more ammunition for why I always will. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/53 "2010-02-05T17:00:15Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > No, really. This is mind boggling to me. We got an entire lesson devoted to this in driver’s ed, both in class and in the car. It was covered _again_ when they taught us what to do if your brakes fail. I had driver’s ed, 18 years ago. I’ve forgotten some things from it, especially things that I don’t use often. And “what to do when your brakes fail” is definitely, especially with reliable modern cars, something that doesn’t get used very often. > [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t think Anne was arguing that people aren’t responsible for knowing these things. She was just pointing out that natural human laziness and cluelessness sometimes interferes with our learning these things, and that many modern cars are so reliable and easy to operate under normal circumstances that we can get away without knowing these things. That is what I’m saying. I don’t think it’s exceptionally dumb or unusual to panic in an emergency. I’d call what happened to the Lexus driver more of a tragic accident than cluelessness. I think most people wouldn’t necessarily have handled it any better than the driver did. Should they? Yes. Would they? I don’t think so. I think a lot of people overestimate how cool, calm, and collected they’d be in a crisis like this. It’s [illusory superiority](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority), just like how 93% of US drivers think they are above average. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/54 "2010-02-05T17:05:00Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Bah! Missed the edit: > > So with the upshift, do you go _to_ N or is it just part way _towards_ N? If I’m correctly reading that shift lever: Sport mode is all the way to the left. There you have up is up shift, down is down shift. Central is nothing (or “S”, for "Sport mode.) Regular drive and neutral is just to the right of this. In other words, if you’re in sport mode, to get to neutral you have to go right, then up. If you go just straight up, you get an upshift (providing the rev limiter doesn’t stop you.) In a panic situation, it’s possible the driver was in sport mode, hitting up and not getting any response (because there was no gear to shift up to). Or, it’s possible he was in regular drive mode and, once again, because he was in a panic situation, pulled the gear shift towards himself and knocked it into sport mode by accident. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/55 "2010-02-05T17:09:21Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I had driver’s ed, 18 years ago. I’ve forgotten some things from it, especially things that I don’t use often. And “what to do when your brakes fail” is definitely, especially with reliable modern cars, something that doesn’t get used very often. Driver’s ed for me was over 20 years ago. There’s tons of stuff I don’t use often or _ever_, but I still remember. I’ve never ever used the Heimlich maneuver on anyone, but if someone started choking, I could do it. Same with being shown how to use a fire extinguisher properly in the 7th grade. I’m just surprised, I guess, at what I’ve taken from granted as basic safety information that everyone knows, people _don’t_ actually know. Like the OP, when the stuck pedal story first broke the news, I couldn’t figure out why people didn’t just slap the car into neutral to slow down and stop. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/56 "2010-02-05T17:15:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > If I’m correctly reading that shift lever: > > Sport mode is all the way to the left. There you have up is up shift, down is down shift. Central is nothing (or “S”, for "Sport mode.) Regular drive and neutral is just to the right of this. In other words, if you’re in sport mode, to get to neutral you have to go right, then up. If you go just straight up, you get an upshift (providing the rev limiter doesn’t stop you.) In a panic situation, it’s possible the driver was in sport mode, hitting up and not getting any response (because there was no gear to shift up to). Or, it’s possible he was in regular drive mode and, once again, because he was in a panic situation, pulled the gear shift towards himself and knocked it into sport mode by accident. I see. That seems like a risky design to me then because you can be driving in a mode that removes the “neutral slap” fail safe. Put my mom in a car like that and she’d probably be in sport mode all the time and not even know it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/57 "2010-02-05T17:15:53Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > Wow. So glad I drive a manual. And now I have more ammunition for why I always will. You’re glad you have a manual because some people never wondered what the giant N on the shift legend meant? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/58 "2010-02-05T17:19:30Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > I see. That seems like a risky design to me then because you can be driving in a mode that removes the “neutral slap” fail safe. Put my mom in a car like that and she’d probably be in sport mode all the time and not even know it. It is kind of odd, ain’t it? Come to think of it, I don’t remember whether the shift lever sticks in “S” or requires a pull to the left and then push up or down to shift. It may be that the shift lever springs back to “D” all the time. It’s been awhile since I’ve used a manumatic. Anybody know? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/59 "2010-02-05T17:20:47Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Yes, but the N is right in line with the D. You can still slap it into neutral like they teach you in driver’s ed. You don’t need to push a button or even look, just slap it. > > No, really. This is mind boggling to me. We got an entire lesson devoted to this in driver’s ed, both in class and in the car. It was covered _again_ when they taught us what to do if your brakes fail. > > ETA: I got my driver’s ed training in the midwest, FWIW. What makes you think that because you got driver’s ed training that everybody gets it? Or even a majority? [In a quick search I found this](http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/drivers-ed-funds-diverted-160132.html): > [@](#): > > Cindi Parris, director of the Marietta/Cobb Driver’s Education program, said about 2,000 students went through the program last year. That’s fewer than 5 percent of the 16-year-olds in the county, she said. Cobb County is a 700,000 person county in Georgia. That same article also said: > [@](#): > > According to 2008 figures, of the 55,000 students who took driver’s ed that year, more than 31,000 took a traditional program. Another 19,000 took the class online. If you can take the class online then you may get the rules of the road correct, but hands-on reaction testing for emergencies is not going to be covered. I appreciate that everybody is congratulating themselves for how cool-headed they would be in an emergency. I’m sure that’s why soldiers and police and EMTs and others don’t need to get special training and regular repeat classes just to be able to function when things get rough … and often get it tragically wrong. Maybe they should just rely on that decades old driver’s ed training and then everything would always work out. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734/60 "2010-02-05T17:39:33Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Maybe they should just rely on that decades old driver’s ed training and then everything would always work out. Really, knowing how to throw a car into neutral is esoteric decades-old driver’s ed training? Really? It seems like something every driver should know how to do. I’ve discovered that it’s apparently not. (Mind you, with the Lexus shift lever, that does present a complication. The driver may very well have been shifting into “+” instead of “N.” I could see panic quickly setting in when your “shift-into-N” reflex doesn’t seem to be working out and you just assume the car is totally unresponsive, instead of realizing your error.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toyota-stuck-gas-pedal-just-take-it-out-of-gear/527734.md?page=4)