# Tracing the shahada **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 18, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790 "2015-12-18T17:46:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/21 "2015-12-18T20:23:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I ask again, would people have the same reaction to students being asked to trace or write: “Hear! O Israel, the Lord is Our God, the Lord is One”, in hebrew, in the same context of a class on world religion studies? In a class on world religion studies? Maybe not. A geography class, like this incident, then yeah, probably. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/22 "2015-12-18T20:27:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I ask again, would people have the same reaction to students being asked to trace or write: “Hear! O Israel, the Lord is Our God, the Lord is One”, in hebrew, in the same context of a class on world religion studies? I’m Jewish, so that would be different. That’s why I compared it to using a Christian thing. When I studied Hebrew, we practiced writing with stuff like “father came home”. For that matter, I learned to write in English using similarly bland, boring, non-provocative sentences. I don’t think this was a huge deal, but I disapprove. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/23 "2015-12-18T20:30:59Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Dunno if you’ve heard [this story](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35136023), which has actually shut a school district in Virginia - the long and short of it is that during a geography lessons in high school one of the assignments was to trace the shahada written in Arabic calligraphy, the Muslim testimony of faith which translates as _“There is no god but God. Muhammad is the messenger of God”_ > > It’s caused more stink than a bomb in a septic tank - I know we’ve got a lot of parents and a lot of secularists, if your child came home and you found that this was one of the assignments, how would you react? GIS programmer here. That’s not a geography lesson to me. Social Studies, Art class sure. No problem. As an atheist or agnostic (I don’t care about labels) I find it hilarious that there is ‘No god but god’. Take your pick and stop bothering the rest of us with it. There is also ‘No sock like sock’. Off to do the laundry. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/24 "2015-12-18T20:32:20Z")
From what I’ve read, I get the impression that the teacher didn’t know what the Arabic lettering said, she just used something she found as an example for the kids to copy. It should have been a clue that the page said it was the Islamic statement of faith, but I can totally believe that a high school teacher wouldn’t check the translation. In a rational world, the sequence would have gone like this: Parent: Hey, I’m of another religion and I don’t want my kid to write out that Allah is the only god and Mohammed is his prophet, even if it’s in another language they don’t understand and weren’t told, it still bothers me. Teacher: Oh, crap! I didn’t realize it said that. I’ll use different Arabic texts next time. I’m sorry about that. Parent: Thank you so much. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/25 "2015-12-18T20:34:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Did the teacher force all the other students to invoke a magic spell? I don’t know, as everyone came to the circle willingly. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/26 "2015-12-18T20:37:31Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I think “peace be unto you” (asalamalaykum) would have been a much better expression to use in this exercise. The objective as the other thread is indicating, was the teaching of a typical decorative calligraphy. It is not common to see such as decorative calligraphy. Doubtless there is some example but not anything I can remember easily. Perhaps the [Basmallah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basmala) would have been less problem for those who fear the exposure to another religion so much. AS the wiki illustrations show, it is a common calligraphic decoration. Poor americans being exposed … ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/27 "2015-12-18T20:45:35Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > In a class on world religion studies? Maybe not. A geography class, like this incident, then yeah, probably. What does it matter what class it was? Clearly the topic of the lesson had to do with religious writing. You think the teacher had a different agenda in picking this specific text out of the text book provided by the schoolboard? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/28 "2015-12-18T20:51:01Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > From what I’ve read, I get the impression that the teacher didn’t know what the Arabic lettering said, she just used something she found as an example for the kids to copy. It should have been a clue that the page said it was the Islamic statement of faith, but I can totally believe that a high school teacher wouldn’t check the translation. > > In a rational world, the sequence would have gone like this: > > Parent: Hey, I’m of another religion and I don’t want my kid to write out that Allah is the only god and Mohammed is his prophet, even if it’s in another language they don’t understand and weren’t told, it still bothers me. > > Teacher: Oh, crap! I didn’t realize it said that. I’ll use different Arabic texts next time. I’m sorry about that. > > Parent: Thank you so much. Yup, that would be a normal, rational, outcome. And, honestly, if most Arabic calligraphy is really versions of this one statement of faith, then I don’t have a serious problem with the students copying it for an art class or something. I think they should be told what it says, and allowed to opt out if that is a problem for them. I would not instruct my kids to opt out, if that’s how it was set up. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/29 "2015-12-18T20:52:15Z")
It said in the workbook that it was the Islamic statement of faith, though the exact translation wasn’t printed apparently. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/30 "2015-12-18T20:58:41Z")
JFC… you’d think the little darlings were being compelled to write passages out of Mein Kampf while learning how to correctly salute Ze Fuhrer. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/31 "2015-12-18T21:01:45Z")
Don’t be silly. That’s the honors class. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/32 "2015-12-18T21:03:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What does it matter what class it was? Clearly the topic of the lesson had to do with religious writing. You think the teacher had a different agenda in picking this specific text out of the text book provided by the schoolboard? Well, I wouldn’t expect it in a math class either, so clearly it matters what class it was. Also, no I don’t think the teacher had a different agenda, just lazy and/or stupid. I wouldn’t expect students in a real calligraphy class to write that sentence either, no matter how fancy it was. Maybe a less controversial part could have been used, like, say “Men are the maintainers of women” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/33 "2015-12-18T21:04:41Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > JFC… you’d think the little darlings were being compelled to write passages out of Mein Kampf while learning how to correctly salute Ze Fuhrer. Would there be something wrong with writing a passage out of Mein Kampf in a class discussing German literature? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/34 "2015-12-18T21:09:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Would there be something wrong with writing a passage out of Mein Kampf in a class discussing German literature? Literature? Yes. A class in politics? Or possibly even philosophy? No, that would be suitable. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/35 "2015-12-18T21:09:52Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Maybe a less controversial part could have been used, like, say “Men are the maintainers of women” Oh, I get it… because we Judeo-Christians have the moral high ground on religious dogma. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/36 "2015-12-18T21:13:37Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I ask again, would people have the same reaction to students being asked to trace or write: “Hear! O Israel, the Lord is Our God, the Lord is One”, in hebrew, in the same context of a class on world religion studies? Yes. I would. There is no reason that a lesson on calligraphy has to have a declarative statement about a belief in any deity. There are literally an infinite number of other sentences that could have been used. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/37 "2015-12-18T21:14:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Would there be something wrong with writing a passage out of Mein Kampf in a class discussing German literature? I don’t know. Do you feel that Mein Kampf was a particularly eloquent piece of German literature? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/38 "2015-12-18T21:19:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I don’t know. Do you feel that Mein Kampf was a particularly eloquent piece of German literature? I don’t, but I likewise don’t feel that the Arabic phrase in question is a particularly eloquent piece of writing So, if your standard is “the eloquence” of a piece of writing for determining whether or not students should be forced to copy it, then I would be against both Mein Kampf and the shahada. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/39 "2015-12-18T21:19:32Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Yes. I would. There is no reason that a lesson on calligraphy has to have a declarative statement about a belief in any deity. There are literally an infinite number of other sentences that could have been used. Giving credit were credit is due, per **JRDelirious** : [Yes, it is easily justified](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18949160&postcount=53). ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790/40 "2015-12-18T21:31:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t, but I likewise don’t feel that the Arabic phrase in question is a particularly eloquent piece of writing > > So, if your standard is “the eloquence” of a piece of writing for determining whether or not students should be forced to copy it, then I would be against both Mein Kampf and the shahada. What about the Sh’ma in Herbrew, or Gloria Patri [in Arabic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Patri). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tracing-the-shahada/740790.md?page=3)