# Trademark question? Using fictional business names for your real business **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 19, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193 "2005-07-19T20:28:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/1 "2005-07-19T20:28:23Z")
Keep forgeting to post this question. Went to go see Batman Begins. My wife and I are sitting there as the credits roll (yes, we’re the one’s who don’t get up), when my eyes happen upon: Catering services provided by: Rancho Relaxo I got a real kick out of it. (For you non-Simpsons nerds, this is the spa that Marge goes to decompress after having a nervous breakdown) Google shows a catering outfit in Toronto with that name. Whether the episode or business came first, I don’t know. But I began wondering, “What are the rules about using fictional names for your real business?” Do you have to ask permission? Maybe you don’t even need to ask! Can I go ahead and open a gun shop called **Bloodbath & Beyond**? Or a feed store named **Sneed’s Feed & Seed formerly Chucks**? (If you don’t get it please don’t ask) Or start chain of **Big Kahuna Burgers**? ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/2 "2005-07-19T20:51:07Z")
I’m not sure of the answer. I’ve seen some names trademarked, but those seem to be special situations, such as certain companies marketing games or comic books. In general, unless it’s a high-profile name (“Tatooine Burgers”) I can’t imagine it would be worth the legal fees. I have seen a number of “Needful Things” junk shops appear after Stephen King’s book appeared. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/3 "2005-07-19T21:06:01Z")
US Robotics took their name from US Robotics and Mechanical Men from Asimov’s Robot stories. I can find no mention of them having to get permission from Asimov or his publishers to use the name. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/4 "2005-07-19T21:06:27Z")
There’s a chain of comic shops in the UK called Forbidden Planet, obviously they took their name from the movie(1956). Don’t know if there was any copyright issues, if they had to pay to use the name or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/5 "2005-07-19T22:36:19Z")
> [@pesch](#): > > I have seen a number of “Needful Things” junk shops appear after Stephen King’s book appeared. My favorite was an DIY electronics store called “Nerdful Things”. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/6 "2005-07-19T22:55:50Z")
Unless the name is already tradmarked (e.g., if you named your magic shop “Harry Potter’s Emporium”), there usually isn’t a problem about using a name from literature for your business name. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/7 "2005-07-19T23:09:03Z")
I remember how disappointed I was to find there was still an [Ace Novelty Company](http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/2822/AWPL/ace/) (one of the outfits Daffy Duck used to pretend to work for to get into people’s houses and cause trouble — I’d been considering the name for a small jazz/hokum combo). And no, they’re not in Walla Walla, Washington, but they _are_ in Woodenville, Washington. The Warner Bros. affiliation continued as of 2000, when they were the makers of _Animaniacs_ plush toys. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/8 "2005-07-20T00:03:35Z")
In the U.S., there are Federal registered trademarks, and there are statewide name registrations. If you don’t register your trademark, it’s hard to protect it unless you can demonstrate that someone else’s use actually hurts you. If I write a story that mentions a bar called “Wombat’s Billabong,” I’m highly unlikely to actually go out and register that trademark. If it’s just a casual mention in my story (as opposed to a prime element like Spider Robinson’s “Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon” or Arthur C. Clarke’s “White Hart”), I don’t think I’d stand a chance of preventing you from using the name for a real bar. IANAL, but I’ve dealt with trademarks quite a bit. > [@Tengu](#): > > US Robotics took their name from US Robotics and Mechanical Men from Asimov’s Robot stories. Wasn’t it “US _Robots_ and Mechanical Men”? I don’t have any of the books handy to look it up, but that’s how I remember it. ---
**Author:** ![critter42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@critter42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/critter42)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/9 "2005-07-20T01:22:05Z")
Nope, it’s definitely US Robotics. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/10 "2005-07-20T01:57:56Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Wasn’t it “US _Robots_ and Mechanical Men”? I don’t have any of the books handy to look it up, but that’s how I remember it. Yes. I _do_ have a copy of _I, Robot_ handy, and you’re right. Here’s a direct quote from the first short story, “Robbie”: > [@](#): > > “I persuaded Robertson of U. S. Robots and Mechanical Men, Inc. to arrange for a complete tour of his premises tomorrow.” ---
**Author:** ![Donovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@Donovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donovan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/11 "2005-07-20T09:27:23Z")
slightly off-topic, but Does anyone know if Bill Gates grabbed the name Microsoft from the term used in Gibson’s _Neuromancer_? I always figured that was the case, but noone I’ve spoken to could say yes for sure. ---
**Author:** ![micco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f8ce5/32.png) [@micco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micco)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/12 "2005-07-20T13:38:30Z")
> [@Donovan](#): > > slightly off-topic, but Does anyone know if Bill Gates grabbed the name Microsoft from the term used in Gibson’s _Neuromancer_? I always figured that was the case, but noone I’ve spoken to could say yes for sure. Neuromancer shows a publication date of 1984. This [timeline](http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=30) indicates Bill Gates had used the name Microsoft as early as 1975 and it was definitely in use by 1981 when the IBM PC shipped. I’m pretty sure I can recall fighting Microsoft support long before 1984. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/13 "2005-07-20T14:26:04Z")
Steely Dan was named after a sex toy described in Naked Lunch by Wm Burroughs. Basic rule, you can use a name as long as it isn’t a registered trademark, or isn’t already being used in commerce by someone else. This is a vast overgeneralization. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/14 "2005-07-20T18:08:34Z")
Didn’t Duff Beer in Australia lose a case of trademark infringement when sued by the producers/owenrs/someone of the Simpsons? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/15 "2005-07-20T18:12:42Z")
> [@archmichael](#): > > Can I go ahead and open a gun shop called **Bloodbath & Beyond**? A parody name of an existing trademark could and probably would get you a nasty letter from a trademark lawyer. It’s one thing to use the name in a satire, but to give it to another store is likely infringement. For instance, every once in a while, Western Union has to suppress someone calling themselves Eastern Onion. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/16 "2005-07-20T21:39:09Z")
In another case of this actually happening, there’s a Wonka Candy Company (most famous for Nerds, though they do actually have a product called an Everlasting Gobstopper), named after the company in the Roald Dahl books. This is rather more central to the story in question, I would think, than a quick one-off mention on _The Simpsons_ (or even a repeated mention, like Duff). ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/17 "2005-07-20T23:44:50Z")
> [@critter42](#): > > Nope, it’s definitely US Robotics. Nope right back. I know **Loopus** already said it, but I pulled out my old Asimov books and it’s definitely U.S. Robots and Mechanical Men. Good to know my memory actually works sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Donovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@Donovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donovan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/18 "2005-07-21T05:15:18Z")
> [@micco](#): > > Neuromancer shows a publication date of 1984. This [timeline](http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=30) indicates Bill Gates had used the name Microsoft as early as 1975 and it was definitely in use by 1981 when the IBM PC shipped. I’m pretty sure I can recall fighting Microsoft support long before 1984. wow, good point. I just always assumed Neuromancer was written early 70s… noone ever brought that up before 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/19 "2005-07-21T06:44:57Z")
I’m rather interested in this question now, but I don’t see any consensus. Most posters indicate it’s probably ok, but if a RL Duff brewery lost out to the Simpsons, where does that leave my new ventures Umbrella Corp. and Shinohara Heavy Industries? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193/20 "2005-07-21T13:50:24Z")
> [@Nanoda](#): > > I’m rather interested in this question now, but I don’t see any consensus. Most posters indicate it’s probably ok, but if a RL Duff brewery lost out to the Simpsons, where does that leave my new ventures Umbrella Corp. and Shinohara Heavy Industries? In Michigan, you’d be too late for Umbrella Co, LLC, anyway: [http://www.cis.state.mi.us/bcs\_corp/dt\_llc.asp?id\_nbr=B8972V&name\_entity=UMBRELLA%20CO.%20LLC](http://www.cis.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/dt_llc.asp?id_nbr=B8972V&name_entity=UMBRELLA%20CO.%20LLC) and some folks in Japan apparently would have something to say if you tried Shinohara: [http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=mp2cna.2.1](http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=mp2cna.2.1) [http://members.iimetro.com.au/~mwhitley/laborspat.htm](http://members.iimetro.com.au/~mwhitley/laborspat.htm) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademark-question-using-fictional-business-names-for-your-real-business/313193.md?page=2)