# Trademarking Pi. What's worse, granting the trademark or that this asshat thinks he can own it? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 3, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915 "2014-06-03T12:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/41 "2014-06-04T09:47:46Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The actual trademark award ([published here by CNET who claims this is the one is question)](http://www.cnet.com/news/artist-trademarks-pi-geeks-despair/) seems to be ok. I am not sure if the bile is warranted. “ok” in what sense? The guy trademarked a symbol that is 2,500 years old, widely known, widely used, and generic, then filed suit over someone making a t-shirt with the generic symbol on it. Maybe I should trademark the Ankh, and sue everyone who makes jewelry based on it. Guys like this make my blood boil, I get irrationally angry over their interference with others who are just going about their business. On the plus side, I just remembered that I need to take by HBP medication. Thanks, Mr. Ingrisano, your lawsuit has done something good. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/42 "2014-06-04T10:58:40Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > “ok” in what sense? The guy trademarked a symbol that is 2,500 years old, widely known, widely used, and generic, OK, in the sense that the registration seems prima facie valid (although it wouldn’t have been registerable in many countries, because it’s too simple). In any event, there is no requirement that a trademark be novel (that’s patents). Widely known, widely used and generic are aspects of trademark use, not trademark registration. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > …then filed suit over someone making a t-shirt with the generic symbol on it. This is a valid concern, and I don’t think he’ll get far bringing suit against a prior user, when he doesn’t currently manufacture apparel under the pi trademark. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/43 "2014-06-04T11:21:18Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I call dibs on “Hitler” You know who else called dibs on Hitler? George Marshall ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/44 "2014-06-04T11:36:57Z")
You think this is bad, look up Leo Stoller – [Leo Stoller - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Stoller) – he has a history of filing so many bogus trademark claims that at one point a judge said that he wasn’t allowed to file any new complaints without the court’s permission. Among other things, he claims blanket rights in the word “Stealth,” so he doesn’t even understand how trademark protection works. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/45 "2014-06-04T11:38:49Z")
By the way there’s nothing wrong in theory about a trademark comprising the Greek letter pi. It’s no different than any word, letter, or symbol. The question is how are you using it, is it distinctive, and other normal trademark questions. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/46 "2014-06-04T12:44:52Z")
Yeah. The fact that he filed the trademark on “pi plus a period” as a logo is not completely unreasonable. It’s the fact that he’s attempting to use this trademark to shut down anyone and everyone who has the Greek letter pi on any of their products that makes him a massive asshat. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/47 "2014-06-04T12:53:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The actual trademark award ([published here by CNET who claims this is the one is question)](http://www.cnet.com/news/artist-trademarks-pi-geeks-despair/) seems to be ok. I am not sure if the bile is warranted. His claim says pi followed by a period, but the cease-and-desist letter appears to apply to everything with just pi, not his trademarked claim. I hope Zazzle sues him for harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/48 "2014-06-04T13:09:49Z")
When come back, don’t bring pi. All your pi are belong to us. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/49 "2014-06-04T13:41:55Z")
Area of circle = constant formerly known as pi \* r^2 ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/50 "2014-06-04T13:49:27Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Yeah. The fact that he filed the trademark on “pi plus a period” as a logo is not completely unreasonable. It’s the fact that he’s attempting to use this trademark to shut down anyone and everyone who has the Greek letter pi on any of their products that makes him a massive asshat. > [@kidchameleon](#): > > His claim says pi followed by a period, but the cease-and-desist letter appears to apply to everything with just pi, not his trademarked claim. I hope Zazzle sues him for harassment. Exactly. If Zazzle had been making t-shirts with a pi followed by a period, his suit would have merit. As it is, he’s just an asshole trying to be the Trademark equivalent of a Patent Troll. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/51 "2014-06-04T14:50:10Z")
Do you guys understand what a trademark is? For instance, there is a large computer company that uses the trademark “Apple”. That doesn’t mean they are allowed to sue anyone who uses the word apple, or that they now own all apples, or that no other company can use the word “Apple” in their name. A trademark is just that, a trademark. It is an identifier under which someone does business. So Apple has a trademark on “Apple”, which means if you started a computer company and started selling computers under the name “Apple”, they could sue you. But if you grew apples and sold apples they couldn’t. There are hundreds of companies that use the word “apple” in their name, and that does not violate Apple Computer’s trademark in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/52 "2014-06-04T15:22:04Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > If Zazzle had been making t-shirts with a pi followed by a period, his suit would have merit. Unless they can prove that they’ve been using it longer than he has. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/53 "2014-06-04T15:26:46Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Do you guys understand what a trademark is? > > . Whom is this addressed to? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/54 "2014-06-04T15:41:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Whom is this addressed to? The posters that have conflated the Trademark office with the patent office, and those people who ignore the stylization, font, etc, that makes the mark distinct. Note that the second group apparently includes Douchebag J. Ingrisano and his lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/55 "2014-06-04T15:47:24Z")
> [@bup](#): > > The posters that have conflated the Trademark office with the patent office, and those people who ignore the stylization, font, etc, that makes the mark distinct. Pretty sure they’re all joking/poking fun at the douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/56 "2014-06-04T15:50:12Z")
Gotta love this marketing stunt. He has an etsy store with 1 item in it…you’d think he’d be capitalizing on this a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/57 "2014-06-04T17:36:07Z")
> [@bup](#): > > The posters that have conflated the Trademark office with the patent office … You know that it’s called the “Patent and Trademark Office,” right? It kind of was conflated by Congress. I’m guessing you mean to say they’re conflating trademarks and patents. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/58 "2014-06-04T17:42:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You think this is bad, look up Leo Stoller – [Leo Stoller - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Stoller) – he has a history of filing so many bogus trademark claims that at one point a judge said that he wasn’t allowed to file any new complaints without the court’s permission. I’m pretty sure the picture of his various trademarks broke my eyes. He should be arrested for crimes against logo design. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/59 "2014-06-04T17:55:34Z")
“This is a job for all the effects!” ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/60 "2014-06-05T20:46:11Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > Too bad for Paul Ingrisano, I have a college notebook from 10 years ago that clearly shows that I correctly calculated Pi to 12 pages. I have first rights to those 12 pages, so he only get the numbers after that. HAHA!!! He’s are going to owe me every time he tries to get his numbers right!!! I think we need a new forum just for you and \*\*Ducati \*\*called “Yeah, that happened.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915.md?page=4)