# Trademarking Pi. What's worse, granting the trademark or that this asshat thinks he can own it? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 3, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915 "2014-06-03T12:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/61 "2014-06-05T20:52:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You know that it’s called the “Patent and Trademark Office,” right? It kind of was conflated by Congress. > > I’m guessing you mean to say they’re conflating trademarks and patents. Oh, about that… I’m kind of stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/62 "2014-06-05T20:56:06Z")
How do you know that you’ve hired the best trademark attorney that money can buy? He has a gmail address. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/63 "2014-06-08T23:52:49Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Oh yeah? I’m trademarking the wheel. > What goes around, comes around. I’m patenting the Acheulian hand axe. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/64 "2014-06-09T00:02:09Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > What the fuck are they smoking at the patent office? My understanding (and if I am wrong I am sure people here will correct me) is the Patent Office pretty much grants any application that crosses their desks. Patent clerks are in no way qualified to assess every patent that comes across their desk. They cannot be experts in all fields. As such pretty much ALL patents are “granted” merely by applying. As I understand it only a few things are denied outright (perpetual motion patents are denied outright). The way the government looks at it is they grant patents to most everything and leave it to you to fight it out in court. Sucks? Maybe but if you think about it how else would it work? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/65 "2014-06-09T00:08:45Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > “ok” in what sense? The guy trademarked a symbol that is 2,500 years old, widely known, widely used, and generic, then filed suit over someone making a t-shirt with the generic symbol on it. Who told you it’s generic? Look, the _legal claim_ the guy is making about infringement is obviously bogus. However, it is perfectly possible to obtain trademark rights in a symbol, word, or other distinctive artifact that is 2,500 years old. > [@](#): > > Maybe I should trademark the Ankh, and sue everyone who makes jewelry based on it. It is perfectly possible for you to obtain trademark rights in an image or symbol that incorporates an ankh. It is not necessarily supportable for you to sue everyone who makes jewelry based on it. Those are two separate things. > [@](#): > > Guys like this make my blood boil, I get irrationally angry over their interference with others who are just going about their business. On the plus side, I just remembered that I need to take by HBP medication. Thanks, Mr. Ingrisano, your lawsuit has done something good. This is really a petty issue and not a blood boiling one. So long as legal actions exist, some small number of people will try to abuse them. But just like Leo Stoller, whom I mentioned before, courts know how to handle these idiots. I’d be happy to call them “trademark trolls,” but they don’t cause nearly the amount of worry and harm that patent trolls do. And notice I am using terms like “asserting trademark rights in” and “obtaining trademark rights in,” and I’m not saying “trademarking.” There is a reason for that. If you’re interested, feel free to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/66 "2014-06-09T00:38:31Z")
I just filed an application for a patent on Communicating Information using Sounds or Symbols. ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/67 "2014-06-09T02:28:43Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > I think we need a new forum just for you and \*\*Ducati \*\*called “Yeah, that happened.” I’m not sure what your problem is with me, but bored stoned geeks tend to do strange stuff. And, honestly, calculating Pi to 12 notebook pages isn’t really bragging about me being all smart and stuff. Its simple to do if you remember how to do long division by hand. I like Pi. I like etymology so I’m learning Latin as a hobby. I’m also a cultist. Lovecraft is the best. Did you know that the Elder Gods seeded life on earth? The dinosaurs died because Cthulhu and his ilk followed the starfish faced beings to earth because they loved killing. They then pretty much wiped the dinosaurs out before the Elder Gods used horrible weapons against them which caused the ice age. I can’t prove that. I can prove that Pi is easy to do longhand. Go for it, all you have to do is have a pencil and paper and remember your grade school math. If you have problems with that, just ask. I’ll help and I won’t make fun of your ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/68 "2014-06-12T17:10:48Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > I think we need a new forum just for you and \*\*Ducati \*\*called “Yeah, that happened.” But you have to remember that this was during the time she was doing meth. So I could see her all methed out on a weeklong bender scribbling away for days on end. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/69 "2014-06-12T17:21:08Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > I’m not sure what your problem is with me, but bored stoned geeks tend to do strange stuff. And bored middle-aged ladies like to make up stories on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/70 "2014-06-12T18:54:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And notice I am using terms like “asserting trademark rights in” and “obtaining trademark rights in,” and I’m not saying “trademarking.” There is a reason for that. If you’re interested, feel free to ask. I’m interested. What’s the difference? If I wanted to “obtain trademark rights in” the number 314, could I do it? I take it from your comments that even if I could, I couldn’t sue other people who use 314 in the name of their company, or who produce merchandise with the number 314 on it. (Or, I suppose, I could sue them but couldn’t expect to win.) So what’s the point of the trademark. What does it allow me to do? Because I thought that, if, say, DC Comics trademarks the name “Superman”, it means that if anyone names something “Superman” or produces merchandise with the name “Superman” written on it, then DC gets to sue them and either force them to change the name or force them to pay them money. And so, analogously, I would have thought that if someone trademarks the pi symbol, then this means they can now legally force other people to pay money if they put the pi symbol on their merchandise. You seem to be saying that’s not the case, but then I guess I don’t understand what a trademark is good for. Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/71 "2014-06-12T19:11:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My understanding (and if I am wrong I am sure people here will correct me) is the Patent Office pretty much grants any application that crosses their desks. If the idea in the application hasn’t been made obvious by a previous patent. > [@](#): > > Patent clerks are in no way qualified to assess every patent that comes across their desk. They cannot be experts in all fields. Which is why the Patent Office is broken down into specialized groups, into which examiners with engineering degrees pertinent to each particular group are assigned. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/72 "2014-06-12T19:21:47Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > I’m interested. What’s the difference? > > If I wanted to “obtain trademark rights in” the number 314, could I do it? I take it from your comments that even if I could, I couldn’t sue other people who use 314 in the name of their company, or who produce merchandise with the number 314 on it. (Or, I suppose, I could sue them but couldn’t expect to win.) So what’s the point of the trademark. What does it allow me to do? > > Because I thought that, if, say, DC Comics trademarks the name “Superman”, it means that if anyone names something “Superman” or produces merchandise with the name “Superman” written on it, then DC gets to sue them and either force them to change the name or force them to pay them money. And so, analogously, I would have thought that if someone trademarks the pi symbol, then this means they can now legally force other people to pay money if they put the pi symbol on their merchandise. > > You seem to be saying that’s not the case, but then I guess I don’t understand what a trademark is good for. Please explain. Similar to groups in the Patent Office, trademarks are broken down into Classes. The style of and font used in each mark also matters. DC probably wouldn’t like it but there shouldn’t be a problem with registering Superman to deliver pizzas, as long as their “Superman” doesn’t look like DC’s “Superman”. In the case of the Pi followed by a period, that’s in a class which has to do with apparel. Which is why the doofus is going after a clothing company, nevermind the fact that they’ve been using Pi longer than he has. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/73 "2014-06-12T20:31:23Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Similar to groups in the Patent Office, trademarks are broken down into Classes. The style of and font used in each mark also matters. DC probably wouldn’t like it but there shouldn’t be a problem with registering Superman to deliver pizzas, as long as their “Superman” doesn’t look like DC’s “Superman”. > > In the case of the Pi followed by a period, that’s in a class which has to do with apparel. Which is why the doofus is going after a clothing company, nevermind the fact that they’ve been using Pi longer than he has. And don’t confuse trademarks with copyright. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915/74 "2014-06-13T01:23:36Z")
> [@simster](#): > > And don’t confuse trademarks with copyright. Or what? Huh? Huh? **Huh?** That’s what I thought… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trademarking-pi-whats-worse-granting-the-trademark-or-that-this-asshat-thinks-he-can-own-it/689915.md?page=3)