# Tragic Story with weird Side Note
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [February 3, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694 "2015-02-03T12:25:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/1 "2015-02-03T12:25:52Z")
I am reading the NYTimes. There is a tragic story about a young Brooklyn couple, her pregnant, killed by a hit and run driver. The baby died a day later.
Behind their paywall: [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/nyregion/trial-begins-in-hit-and-run-that-killed-expectant-brooklyn-couple.html?ref=todayspaper](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/nyregion/trial-begins-in-hit-and-run-that-killed-expectant-brooklyn-couple.html?ref=todayspaper)
The trial of the killer is starting. In the breakdown of the case, they include this statement:
> [@](#):
>
> After the crash, Mr. Acevedo walked over to the Camry, “looked inside, and walked away,” Mr. Gough said, abandoning his car. The police found \*\*fingerprints on a bag of frozen rats \*\*in the BMW (Mr. Gough did not explain why they were there) as well as DNA particles on the airbag that deployed during the crash. The evidence was linked to Mr. Acevedo.
(bolding mine)
Just a surreal thing to read while focused on the case itself. I suppose there are logical explanations - e.g., someone has a pet reptile - but…still weird to read.
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### Author:  [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/2 "2015-02-03T13:50:42Z")
One of them got out of the bag.
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### Author:  [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/3 "2015-02-03T14:08:59Z")
[Here](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/hit-and-run-suspect-faces-life-sentence-couple-death-article-1.2100238) is an NY Post story about the case. Gotta love that hat!
Who is Mr. Gough? The prosecutor?
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/4 "2015-02-03T14:09:29Z")
From the article:
> [@](#):
>
> The car service driver had stopped at an intersection where the stop line is several feet back from the crossroad, and drivers often edged out into traffic to see if someone was coming. The driver saw nothing and pulled out, Mr. Gough said, and was hit squarely by Mr. Acevedo’s car.
Might be nice to re-do that intersection.
I’ll have to look for Bag O’Rats in the freezer section at the supermarket.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/5 "2015-02-03T16:09:13Z")
> [@Crotalus](#):
>
> [Here](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/hit-and-run-suspect-faces-life-sentence-couple-death-article-1.2100238) is an NY Post story about the case. Gotta love that hat!
>
> Who is Mr. Gough? The prosecutor?
Yes, Gough is listed as one of the prosecutors in the NYTimes article.
That hat on the archive picture of the bride and groom - wow, that is awful in whole new ways of awful\*. I thought I knew a bit about Hasidic Jews and their modes of dress, but haven’t seen a hat like that.
Again - first and foremost, this is a terrible tragedy and the driver/killer deserves punishment to the fullest extent of the law. But the bag of frozen rats and that hat definitely add a surreal aspect to this awful situation.
\*Edited to Add: now I feel awful for commenting - this family is going through so much, and I sure don’t know enough about their community’s customs to…appreciate a hat like that. Just surreal.
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### Author:  [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/6 "2015-02-03T16:26:12Z")
> [@lieu](#):
>
> One of them got out of the bag.
…took ‘em to the [Doctor](http://explorehealthcareers.org/en/Career/129/Forensic_Pathologist) and the Doctor said:
"…no more rat-sies jumpin’ on the head…!" 😃
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/7 "2015-02-03T16:37:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> From the article: Might be nice to re-do that intersection.
[Here](https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Kent+Ave+%26+Wilson+St,+Brooklyn,+NY+11249&ll=40.70318,-73.96583&spn=0.008003,0.010589&sll=40.703181,-73.965827&layer=c&cbp=13,329.97,,0,17.05&cbll=40.703117,-73.965748&hnear=Kent+Ave+%26+Wilson+St,+Brooklyn,+New+York+11249&t=m&z=17&panoid=034Mbhz2DzEiwfwh2a5Avw) is the intersection in question. To be honest, it doesn’t look very different from, or any more dangerous than, a thousand other intersections where a busy road acts as the T-junction for a smaller side road.
It’s not clear to me what the speed limit is on Kent Avenue,\* but i’ll bet it’s well under 70 mph, which is allegedly the speed that Acevedo was going when he hit the livery car. And fleeing the scene is a total asshole move, and should get him extra punishment.
I’m curious about a couple of the prosecutor’s comments to the jury,. though:
> [@](#):
>
> “This isn’t a question, ladies and gentlemen, of right of way,” Mr. Gough said, noting there were no skid marks associated with Mr. Acevedo’s car, meaning he “didn’t hit the brakes at all.”
First of all, surely there needs to be at least SOME question of right of way. If Acevedo was on Kent Avenue, and the livery car was pulling out of Wilson Street and onto Kent Avenue, then Acevedo had the right of way, and the livery car was supposed to yield to any cars on Kent Avenue before pulling out. I simply don’t see how you can say that right of way isn’t even an issue when one of the car was controlled by a STOP sign and the other one wasn’t.
Also, the absence of skid marks could simply mean that the livery car pulled out right at the last second, and Acevedo never even had time to hit the brakes before hitting them. It doesn’t necessarily imply some nefarious intent.
None of this excuses Acevedo’s speeding, or his fleeing the scene. Both of those things should weigh heavily. If he wasn’t speeding, maybe the livery driver would have seen him in plenty of time, and not pulled out. And if they couldn’t avoid the accident altogether, maybe the Glaubers would have lived if Acevedo was going the speed limit. But even with all that, i just don’t see how right of way isn’t at least a partial factor in an accident at a T intersection.
And the bag of frozen rats? That’s just weird.
- Edit: According to the NY Post story linked by **Crotalus** , Acevedo was going more than twice the speed limit. That’s pretty fucked up. To be honest, going 60-70 on any surface street in New York City should probably be a lock-up offense by itself.
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### Author:  [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/8 "2015-02-03T16:45:16Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The police found fingerprints on a bag of frozen rats in the BMW (Mr. Gough did not explain why they were there) as well as DNA particles on the airbag that deployed during the crash.
I like how that sentence leaves it ambiguous whether Gough failed to explain the fingerprints or the rats.
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### Author:  [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/9 "2015-02-03T16:46:18Z")
Does the defendant own a snake?
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/10 "2015-02-03T16:51:34Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> I’m curious about a couple of the prosecutor’s comments to the jury,. though:First of all, surely there needs to be at least SOME question of right of way. If Acevedo was on Kent Avenue, and the livery car was pulling out of Wilson Street and onto Kent Avenue, then Acevedo had the right of way, and the livery car was supposed to yield to any cars on Kent Avenue before pulling out. I simply don’t see how you can say that right of way isn’t even an issue when one of the car was controlled by a STOP sign and the other one wasn’t.
In Florida, there is no such legal concept as “right of way”; drivers have a duty to yield and avoid accidents. I always thought that was a good idea.
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> I’ll have to look for Bag O’Rats in the freezer section at the supermarket.
You won’t find it in the freezer section at the supermarket; you’ll find it at a toy store, right next to [Bag O’ Glass](http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/irwin-mainway/n8641) (from Mainway Toys, of course).
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/11 "2015-02-03T17:08:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> In Florida, there is no such legal concept as “right of way”; drivers have a duty to yield and avoid accidents. I always thought that was a good idea.
So, does Florida law draw no distinction between the person who is confronted by a STOP or YIELD sign, and a person who is not? Between a person trying to enter the flow of traffic, and a person who is already in the flow of traffic?
If it doesn’t, then why have the signs at all. Why not just make every intersection a free-for-all, where people just get to choose who goes first? Having no concept of right of way is, to put it bluntly, fucking retarded.
Yes, having right of way doesn’t mean you get to drive like an asshole. Even if he had right of way in the case, Acevedo still broke the law in a bunch of ways and deserves to be punished. But that doesn’t mean that right of way is a useless concept.
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### Author:  [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/12 "2015-02-03T18:45:57Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> Yes, Gough is listed as one of the prosecutors in the NYTimes article.
>
> That hat on the archive picture of the bride and groom - wow, that is awful in whole new ways of awful\*. I thought I knew a bit about Hasidic Jews and their modes of dress, but haven’t seen a hat like that.
I’ve mentioned this before, but when we were hanging around NYU Medical Center, there were a number of Jewish men who would be wearing hats of that basic type, though they weren’t as tall and the fur wasn’t teased up in the air like that. It prompted my parents and me to whisper to one another from Seinfeld “What attracts you to our religion, George?” “I’d have to say, it’s the hats.”
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### Author:  [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/13 "2015-02-03T18:51:36Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> Yes, Gough is listed as one of the prosecutors in the NYTimes article.
>
> That hat on the archive picture of the bride and groom - wow, that is awful in whole new ways of awful\*. I thought I knew a bit about Hasidic Jews and their modes of dress, but haven’t seen a hat like that.
I’ve mentioned this before, but when we were hanging around NYU Medical Center, there were a number of Jewish men who would be wearing hats of that basic type, though they weren’t as tall and the fur wasn’t teased up in the air like that.\*\* It prompted my parents and me to whisper to one another from Seinfeld “What attracts you to our religion, George?” “I’d have to say, it’s the hats.”
\*\*These – “shtreimels” [http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/shtr.jpg](http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/shtr.jpg)
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### Author:  [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/14 "2015-02-03T19:16:49Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#):
>
> …took ‘em to the [Doctor](http://explorehealthcareers.org/en/Career/129/Forensic_Pathologist) and the Doctor said:
> "…no more rat-sies jumpin’ on the head…!" 😃
I said no such thing! I was misquoted! It was taken out of context!
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/15 "2015-02-03T19:45:41Z")
Its no secret that I’m a huge BMW fan. Great cars, well built and come with an impressive list of standard features. Trunk-lib mounted tool kits, glove-box mounted rechargeable flashlights, full sized factory spare wheels, bag of frozen rats, through-seat ski bags, heated seats, first aid kits… the list goes on and on.
Of course, I bought all mine used and only the 740 still had the bag of rats intact. My 325 is missing the flashlight.
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### Author:  [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/16 "2015-02-03T21:04:46Z")
For the GQ answer, yes, they were probably for a snake or bird of prey. Usually called “feeder rats.” If you need your own bag of frozen rats, Amazon is tragically unhip, but you can start here: [Frozen rats for reptiles/birds of prey/wild carnivores](http://www.laynelabs.com/frozen-rats).
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### Author:  [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/17 "2015-02-03T22:34:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> You won’t find it in the freezer section at the supermarket; you’ll find it at a toy store, right next to [Bag O’ Glass](http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/irwin-mainway/n8641) (from Mainway Toys, of course).
The Petsmart I shop at has a freestanding, self-serve freezer full of pre-packaged frozen rats, in all sizes from pinkies to adult.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/18 "2015-02-03T22:44:41Z")
Yep - after a small pause, it was easy to realize that Frozen Rats = Pet Food of some sort. It was still jarring to read in that context!
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### Author:  [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tragic-story-with-weird-side-note/711694/19 "2015-02-03T23:36:02Z")
> [@gigi](#):
>
> I’ve mentioned this before, but when we were hanging around NYU Medical Center, there were a number of Jewish men who would be wearing hats of that basic type, though they weren’t as tall and the fur wasn’t teased up in the air like that.\*\* It prompted my parents and me to whisper to one another from Seinfeld “What attracts you to our religion, George?” “I’d have to say, it’s the hats.”
To me, looking at the picture of the couple, it reminded me of the time George had a rat hat. Which, oddly enough, kept him from being frozen.