# Trailers of Mass Bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017 "2003-06-15T14:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/21 "2003-06-16T01:49:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > **Show me the fuckin steam lines. Where’s the goddammed pH and oxygen probes ? Where’s the frigging sample port ? Where’s the control panel, or work station controller ? [Fermenters _have these things_](http://images.google.com/images?q=fermenter&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&as_qdr=all&sa=N&tab=wi) ! Whatever it is they found on that truck does not. > -** How do you know? If the trailers are a H[sub]2[/sub] production facility it is very likely they would have a steam reformer. You ever seen one of those? Didn’t think so. Also, it’s completely possible that they were using biomass as the feed in their hydrogen production. To do that you need a fermentor. Got that? There may have been fermetors in the trailers. Now, I’m not saying that the American inspectors didn’t jump the gun, but before _you_ jump to conclusions about what was in those trailers you should at least do some very basic research into what equipment is necessary to produce hydrogen. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/22 "2003-06-16T02:13:29Z")
It seems reasonable that the trailers found, as they were and by themselves do not represent compelling evidence of WMDs or a program to create them. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/23 "2003-06-16T02:32:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*It seems reasonable that the trailers found, as they were and by themselves do not represent compelling evidence of WMDs or a program to create them. \*\* Indeed. I wish that others (including members of the Bush Administration, and Bush himself) could keep it that simple, rather than trying to make declarations based on presupposed “facts.” They wouldn’t last two minutes on the Dope. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/24 "2003-06-16T02:37:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*It seems reasonable that the trailers found, as they were and by themselves do not represent compelling evidence of WMDs or a program to create them. \*\* Then why did Bush claim they were? Don’t you think that was a little irresponsible of him to give us a big song and dance about how the WMD’s had finally been found? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/25 "2003-06-16T02:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > How do you know? If the trailers are a H2 production facility… Well, the CIA seems to have taken down the page giving the results of its analysis of the trailers ([it _was_ here](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/iraqi_mobile_plants/index.html)), so you’ll have to look elsewhere for decent photos. However, the photos they did have of what they claimed to be a fermenter, were sadly missing all the usual fermenter paraphenalia I mentioned. As I described in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=3501989&highlight=ferment%2A#post3501989), the alleged fermenter looked a lot more like a medium scale chemical reaction chamber, such as steam reformer. Ahh, FAS was good enough to keep a [copy of the report](http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/iraqi_mobile_plants/), pix and all. I wonder why the CIA took down their site. Couldn’t stand the heat ? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/26 "2003-06-16T02:43:13Z")
So where is **Shodan,** who claimed again and again for several weeks that these trailers were proof of the Iraqi WMD program? Funny how he’s not around this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/27 "2003-06-16T02:49:50Z")
I expected that, given scrutiny by others with a bit less bias than the US, this might be the conclusion. However, given the Guardian’s recent track record, I am hoping to see this reported somewhere else soon, and with a bit more supporting detail. Unless I missed it, the British weapons expert goes unnamed in the piece, and the information is said to have been given to the Guardian last week, although it is not clear when and why it is just being reported now. If anyone finds any other sources or evidence regarding inspections of these hydrogen facilities, please pass them along. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/28 "2003-06-16T02:57:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\*So where is **Shodan,** who claimed again and again for several weeks that these trailers were proof of the Iraqi WMD program? > > Funny how he’s not around this thread. \*\* Sunday nights, the Usual Suspects get together at **december** ’s house and watch old Ronald Reagan movies and analyze them for subtext and hidden messages. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/29 "2003-06-16T03:03:50Z")
Let me say that first off, regardless of what these trailers were used for, they cannot be shot through the air at the U.S. to disperse anthrax. Therefore, no matter how you slice it, they are not WMD’s. At best, they’re part of a WMD program. That being said, if that’s not a fermentor, then what was the truck used for? To expand on the theme a little, basically a fermentor is a big, double-walled steel cylinder. You put some broth (basically yeast soup) inside it and run high-pressure, superheated steam between the two walls to superheat the broth and sterilize it. Then you open a port on the top and pour in some germs. The fermentor has a pump that will pump air through the broth, and some blades like a blender or laundry machine that will stir up the broth. After a while the germs reproduce from eating the broth, and then you drain the fermentor from a port in the bottom. A good fermentor also has extra ports for pH probes and the like, but whether you use them depends on how finicky the germs are. Usually these ports will have their own steam lines, and you sterilize them separately from the main body of the fermentor. The thing in the picture doesn’t really look like a fermentor to me. It’s hard to tell from one photo, but it seems to be missing the window you would use to monitor the progress of the bacterial growth, ports for putting germs in and draining the broth, etc. It’s a little hard to believe that it could even be a custom-made absolute bare-bones fermentor (which would raise the question of why Saddam would settle for such a thing, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/30 "2003-06-16T03:51:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben \* > \*\*Then why did Bush claim they were? Don’t you think that was a little irresponsible of him to give us a big song and dance about how the WMD’s had finally been found? \*\* I don’t know. It could be a bald lie, or it could be the result of bad or premature information. I don’t know enought to attribute motivations at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/31 "2003-06-16T03:53:23Z")
On the other hand, if they are simply hydrogen factories that alone may qualify them as insidious weapons of mass destruction. 😉 [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=190542](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=190542) ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/32 "2003-06-16T11:29:51Z")
More crap: [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/16/1055615721193.html](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/16/1055615721193.html) > [@](#): > > **Iraq trailer a biological weapons lab, claims PM** > June 16 2003 > British and American intelligence reports had concluded that **a** trailer found in Iraq was a biological weapons facility, Prime Minister John Howard said today. > > “United States and United kingdom intelligence agencies have concluded that at least one of the **three** vehicle trailers found in Iraq is a mobile production biological weapons production facility, and closely matches the description given to the United Nations Security Council in February by the United States,” Mr Howard told parliament. > > Labor foreign affairs spokesman Kevin Rudd had asked Mr Howard to respond to media reports that British intelligence had concluded that **two** trailers captured by allied forces in Iraq were not mobile germ warfare labs, but were used for producing hydrogen for artillery balloons. (Bolding mine) What the fuck is going on here? There seems to be a **third** trailer. Where the fuck did that come from? Where the fuck is it? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/33 "2003-06-16T11:42:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > \*\* > They wouldn’t last two minutes on the Dope. 😃 \*\* IMHO, very few politicians would. And after what they’d have to say here to be honest, they’d get killed in the elections because their wiggle room’d be played out. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/34 "2003-06-16T11:44:20Z")
The weirder this whole affair gets, the more I wonder about another october surprise. This time it’d be the actual CBW of the Hussein regime. Of course, by December, (no pun intended very much), the report may have been discredited. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/35 "2003-06-16T18:34:20Z")
And people wonder why I get so depressed about the state of the world today… ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/36 "2003-06-16T19:00:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*More crap: > > [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/16/1055615721193.htmlWhat](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/16/1055615721193.htmlWhat) the fuck is going on here? There seems to be a **third** trailer. Where the fuck did that come from? Where the fuck is it? \*\* It’s on the grassy knoll! Back, and to the left! ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/37 "2003-06-16T20:22:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*On the other hand, if they are simply hydrogen factories that alone may qualify them as insidious weapons of mass destruction. 😉 > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=190542](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=190542) \*\* Not only that. We all know what kind of [destruction](http://www.hydrogennow.org/Facts/hindenburg.jpg) hydrogen has caused before. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/38 "2003-06-19T02:14:08Z")
I just heard U.S. Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith being interviewed on the BBC. (For those who are unfamiliar with the BBC’s interviewing style, it’s extremely aggressive.) The interviewer asked Feith whether the govt’s current info on WMD’s is accurate, since it comes from Iraqis who might just be telling the U.S. what it wants to hear. Feith explained at some length that one defector gave detailed diagrams of trailers that were part of Saddam’s WMD _program_, and those trailers have been found. Later, the interviewer asked why the U.S. has found zero evidence of WMD’s. Feith again declared that the trailers were unequivocally part of a WMD _program_, and therefore they had already turned up evidence. So, not only does Feith’s entire case hinge on the trailers, but even then he’s reduced to talking about the WMD program, instead of actual WMD’s. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/39 "2003-06-26T03:05:44Z")
Update: > **[AFTER THE WAR: INTELLIGENCE; Agency Disputes C.I.A. View On Trailers as...](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/26/world/after-the-war-intelligence-agency-disputes-cia-view-on-trailers-as-weapons-labs.html)** > > State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research is apparently disputing Central Intelligence Agency conclusion that mysterious trailers found in Iraq were for making biological weapons; government officials report June 2 classified memorandum... > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, June 25 — The State Department’s intelligence division is disputing the Central Intelligence Agency’s conclusion that mysterious trailers found in Iraq were for making biological weapons, United States government officials said today. > > In a classified June 2 memorandum, the officials said, the department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research said it was premature to conclude that the trailers were evidence of an Iraqi biological weapons program, as President Bush has done. The disclosure of the memorandum is the clearest sign yet of disagreement between intelligence agencies over the assertion, which was produced jointly by the C.I.A. and the Defense Intelligence Agency and made public on May 28 on the C.I.A. Web site. Officials said the C.I.A. and D.I.A. did not consult with other intelligence agencies before issuing the report. > > The report on the trailers was initially prepared for the White House, and Mr. Bush has cited it as proof that Iraq indeed had a biological weapons program, as the United States has repeatedly alleged, although it has yet to produce any other conclusive evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017/40 "2003-06-26T04:26:10Z")
WHOOOOSSSHHHH!!! 😛 Bush should be using industrial strenght hair gel this days… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trailers-of-mass-bullshit/182017.md?page=3)