# Traitor gets 30 months **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2007, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857 "2007-06-05T16:10:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/1 "2007-06-05T16:10:58Z")
“Scooter” Libby has been sentanced to 30 months and a $200,000 fine for his perjury to both the FBI and the Grand Jury investigating the outing of a covert CIA operative. It seems fair, I just wish they were able to actually go after the leaker (s) themselves. My father spent 20 years in the Air Force Security Service. To see someone in the intelligence field used as a political pawn, outed out of hubris and petty revenge has turned an incredibly patriotic and dedicated soldier of the cold war into a rather vociferous voice against these “Mayberry Machavelli’s” as someone lo eloquently put it. I’ve never seen my dad so angry or disapointed in his govenment. ETA: since this is the pit…Fuckity fuck shit. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/2 "2007-06-05T16:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=yanceylebeef] It seems fair [/QUOTE] Seems a little light to me. Libby and friends have sent a clear message to any potential covert agents that their security is subject to the political whims of Washington. That’s _got_ to have a chilling effect on recruitment. A sentence of 30 _years_ might be enough to counter that impression. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/3 "2007-06-05T17:00:42Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Seems a little light to me. Libby and friends have sent a clear message to any potential covert agents that their security is subject to the political whims of Washington. That’s _got_ to have a chilling effect on recruitment. A sentence of 30 _years_ might be enough to counter that impression. [/QUOTE] ONLY if Libby actually served all 30 years. Since I am inclined to suspect that he will be pardoned as Bush leaves office, 30 months is a lot closer to “time penalty as enforced” where 30 years would look like a joke. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/4 "2007-06-05T17:25:06Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Seems a little light to me. Libby and friends have sent a clear message to any potential covert agents that their security is subject to the political whims of Washington. That’s _got_ to have a chilling effect on recruitment. A sentence of 30 _years_ might be enough to counter that impression. [/QUOTE] I was just commenting on the punishment as per the charges. If they ever hold anyone up for the actual crime of outing a NOC operative, the sentence should include polishing the gold stars hanging on the wall at Langley. In perpetuity. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/5 "2007-06-05T17:32:27Z")
So if Lewis’ appeals are unsuccessful, will Bush pardon him? ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/6 "2007-06-05T18:03:52Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes out later that known associates of Plame in Iran ended up with 9mm hemorrhages due to her outing. Rove, Cheney and Armitage should get jail time as well. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/7 "2007-06-05T18:39:53Z")
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen] I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes out later that known associates of Plame in Iran ended up with 9mm hemorrhages due to her outing. Rove, Cheney and Armitage should get jail time as well. [/QUOTE] That is a huge worry. Everone who had contact with the front company Brewster Jennings is now a target. Don’t forget Bob Novack. Novackula should have a special place in the cell for his part. As Jon Stewart so pithily describe him…“Truly a douchebag of Liberty” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/8 "2007-06-05T19:17:05Z")
I think the 30 months was to see if he’ll sing like Sammy Davis Jr. He’s probably not worried over the $250K fine or legal fees as there’s probably a gentleman’s agreement already in place, but nobody’s going to serve the 2.5 years for him and that’s a long time. It’s often said that “Federal pens are country clubs”. It’s true that minimum security Fedpens are probably paradise compared to genpop in a maximum security, but even if you’re surrounded by a golf course and have access to tennis courts you’re still in prison and you’re still not able to spend the night with your family and having to be locked into a cell at night. If he’s covering for somebody (which anybody with bat brains knows he is) he might crack to get released. Of course what would be cool would be… any chance you could send him to Gitmo or Abu Ghraib? Or pardon Lynddie England and make her his official guard and or cell-mate? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/9 "2007-06-05T20:38:06Z")
[QUOTE=Eureka] Since I am inclined to suspect that he will be pardoned as Bush leaves office… [/QUOTE] Why would Bush wait until he leaves office? He is not running for anything, and he isn’t showing any regard for Republicans who are running in 2008 (Iraq, immigration). ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/10 "2007-06-05T21:06:11Z")
This sums it up better than I could: [Scooter Libby Sentenced To 30 Months In ‘Pound Me In The Ass’ Prison](http://www.jossip.com/media/breaking-scooter-libby-sentenced-to-30-months-in-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-20070605/) > [@](#): > > Apparently swayed by the hard-nosed “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time” precedent set by celebrity offenders Martha Stewart, Joe Francis and Paris Hilton, a court has reportedly sentenced White House “fall guy” Scooter Libby to 30 months in the slammer for [del]taking the blame for a much larger scale Bush administration conspiracy[/del] lying to federal investigators and obstructing justice. _(strikethroughs in the original)_ ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/11 "2007-06-05T21:07:46Z")
**Fear Itself** , Because pardons issued as Presidents leave office are common and unremarkable, even if the reasons for the pardons are eyebrow-raising worthy. In this case, pardoning Libby makes sense–because he’s clearly a loyal fall guy, not the mastermind. (And 'cause some guy smarter (or at least more knowledgable) than I on this topic said that that’s what he’d expect the timing to be on NPR some time back–like around when the verdict was announced). ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/12 "2007-06-05T21:08:12Z")
> [@](#): > > I think the 30 months was to see if he’ll sing like Sammy Davis Jr. Actually, the 30 months was because the applicable sentencing range under the Guidelines was 30-37 months. Happy to help. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/13 "2007-06-05T22:52:23Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] Actually, the 30 months was because the applicable sentencing range under the Guidelines was 30-37 months. Happy to help. 🙂 [/QUOTE] That could be a reason too, but kindly show me where I’d have been able to work in Sammy Davis Jr. to routine procedure? I really do think he’s going to squeal though. Taking a fall is one thing, but would anybody here do prison time to save a boss (even if there’s promise of pardon and compensation at the end of it)? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/14 "2007-06-05T23:00:26Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] I really do think he’s going to squeal though. Taking a fall is one thing, but would anybody here do prison time to save a boss (even if there’s promise of pardon and compensation at the end of it)? [/QUOTE] Depends on the prison; some of the cells for the elite are quite nice, and they never need to meet the physically dangerous criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/15 "2007-06-05T23:03:38Z")
So if he’s pardoned as Bush leaves office, does he get his $250k refunded? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/16 "2007-06-05T23:30:46Z")
If you haven’t heard, this is the position the US government is taking in Valerie Plame’s lawsuit against Cheney, Libby, et al. > [@](#): > > U.S. District Judge John D. Bates asked: “So you’re arguing there is nothing – absolutely nothing – these officials could have said to reporters that would have been beyond the scope of their employment,” whether the statements were true or false? > > “That’s true, Your Honor. Mr. Wilson was criticizing government policy,” said Jeffrey S. Bucholtz, deputy assistant attorney general for the Justice Department’s civil division. “These officials were responding to that criticism.” [Washington Post story here.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/17/AR2007051701400.html) ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/17 "2007-06-06T00:14:29Z")
Two thoughts. 1. Bush will immediately pardon Libby. Since when is it written that a President has to wait until after the elections? 2. Bush is going to fire the Federal Court Judge who just sentenced Libby, if Libby is not granted bail until after appeal. Any bets? 🙂 Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/18 "2007-06-06T00:18:46Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] Actually, the 30 months was because the applicable sentencing range under the Guidelines was 30-37 months. Happy to help. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Are those the guidelines, or is that what Fitzgerald asked for? I thought I heard on the news that the guidelines were 15-21 months. [This USA Today](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-06-04-libby-sentencing_N.htm?csp=34) story seems to confirm that. > [@](#): > > Libby qualifies for a lighter sentence than the 15 to 21 months recommended by federal sentencing guidelines, says the U.S. district court’s probation office. If so, that might give Bush the excuse he needs to pardon…? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/19 "2007-06-06T00:21:13Z")
I’ll bet against number two since it’s my belief that a sitting federal judge can’t be fired by the President in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857/20 "2007-06-06T00:22:13Z")
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse] Two thoughts. 1. Bush will immediately pardon Libby. Since when is it written that a President has to wait until after the elections? 2. Bush is going to fire the Federal Court Judge who just sentenced Libby, if Libby is not granted bail until after appeal. Any bets? 🙂 Cartooniverse [/QUOTE] Bet actual money? Nah? But I’d bet against both. Bush has more than enough political problems as it is. Actually, I’ll bet you an undisclosed (but very small) amount against your option 2. That is something that would bring calls for impeachment – well, more of them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/traitor-gets-30-months/406857.md?page=2)