# Trans issues, or the politics of transsexuality **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859 "2013-03-24T23:03:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/81 "2013-03-27T05:40:28Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > ~ > > I have never met anyone who planned as much as I did, and it surely helped me a lot. For a variety of reasons the either don’t, or are denied the ability to do so because they don’t have my advantages. In many ways I had it easy - but I did also work my tail off. My post here is the written equivalent of applause. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/82 "2013-03-27T18:11:02Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Thanks for the fascinating response. It still seems like you’re selling yourself short: your advantages in career, money, power, etc. are also due to the fact that you set aside your inner self for many years in order to prepare for the right moment. A transperson unable or unwilling to make this many-year investment just isn’t going to have the same success. I would say your only “unearned” advantage seems to be your (apparently) high mental health–an ingredient which is sadly missing for a larger than normal segment of the trans community. Well my messed -up genetics were unearned. Naturally looking androgynous or feminine really helps from both a self-confidence standpoint as well as a “passing” standpoint. I’m a patient person, and I kept my eyes on the prize - but of course I was also afraid. I built this huge edifice of fear which kept me imprisoned. The final precipitating event occurred last July, when I almost committed suicide over a combination of the depression of having to live and present as “male” and the massive natural high estrogen swings which had tortured me for decades. One physician said that "it’s like you went through menopause for _32 straight years_. The only reason I didn’t commit suicide is I was dithering over which location to do it, and was weighing all the pros and cons. My super-analytical attitude led to analysis paralysis which delayed things until **Fierra** essentially forced me to talk to the doctors again. When you truly hit rock bottom - when the options are with no hyperbole “transition or die” - the decision is laughably easy. Still terrifying, but easy. And that is when I started to live. The fifth day after I started the hormones (I typically had always had high estrogen, which would briefly cycle to low and back up again, and almost no testosterone, although at times it would jump up briefly) I woke up that morning at 6:00am, and I just felt…at total peace. I sat up in bed and I could feel that 30+ years of crippling depression, self-hatred, and self-loathing were gone, burned off like an early morning fog. I sat there, just…a normal woman, sitting in bed, and thinking “\*\*this[/S] is how normal people must feel? You just wake up and don’t feel disgusted for still being alive? You can just have a good day? Really? This is what it’s like? OMG, does everyone understand how awesome this is?” Since that day, my depression never returned. I had become an alcoholic, up to 9 drinks a day (never on the job, always outside of it) and my drinking stopped the first week. In fact, I am essentially a non-drinker; someone will hand me a glass of wine at a party, I’ll sip about half of it over a few hours, and leave it. My attitude transformed - I was happy and smiling. My supervisor said to me one day “I’m worked with you for 20 years and I’ve _never_ seen you smile at work. Now you smile every day…all day long.” Coincidentally, I was chosen for “random” drug and alcohol screening the next day, lol. I wake up each day feeling like it’s the best day of my life. I often compose a song for Fierra, set to the tune of some popular piece, and sing it to her to wake her up. Oh sure, some days I’ll have a headache, or my feet will hurt, or maybe I have a lot of work to do…but the core of _me_, the core of Una is a happy woman bouncing up and down saying “let’s do something fun and be awesome to people today!” I stopped being the cast-iron angry, bitter evil bitch I had become on the SDMB. I apologized to a few people I had savaged unfairly over the years, like **DSeid.** I no longer avoid the SDMB because it irritates me, rather I’m scarce because for the first freaking time in my life I have a social calendar! I really didn’t have a friend in the world locally here - for decades. Not a person. Now I have a best friend, a dozen “great” friends, and I’m invited to parties and get-togethers on a weekly basis. Sometimes I have so many invites I have to agonize over which to accept. Life is awesome and beautiful. I’m fully transitioned and everything worked out. It took a long time and I had to be patient to the point of self-destruction, but by God I made it. No speed limit; this is the fast lane. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/83 "2013-03-27T18:32:49Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I would say your only “unearned” advantage seems to be your (apparently) high mental health–an ingredient which is sadly missing for a larger than normal segment of the trans community. IME many transpeople have suffered years of psychological damage due to their families refusal to accept them. Roughly “I’m a woman!” “No you’re a man, and this questionable psychiatrist has agreed to help convince you. Take these pills and ECT starts tomorrow.” ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/84 "2013-03-27T18:52:48Z")
Una, your post has me sitting here sobbing. I am so glad that you have been able to find such happiness. I hope you are able to carry that joy with you always. Congratulations on your wonderful life! ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/85 "2013-03-27T19:46:48Z")
**Una** - I just wanted to say thank you for sharing. It is enlightening. My personal (sneak-brag) anecdote: My next door neighbor is in the process of MtF transition. She came over to tell me as I was unloading groceries just the other week. I asked her lots of questions, hugged her, and asked what she would like my husband and I to call her from now on. I also told her to let us know if she has any trouble at work (my husband and I are both lawyers). I’d like to think that I performed well on the fly and did myself proud. It was VERY unexpected. But she said, like you, it was transition or suicide. I can’t even imagine. This thread has inspired me to send a note over to Connie, reminding her that I care. Threads like this remind me why I love the SDMB… and why we still ahve so much farther to go as a society. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/86 "2013-03-27T20:56:47Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Are you suggesting that an employer can’t enact a dress code? Every employer I have ever had has forced me to dress as they deem appropriate. Can you enact a dress code for your employer and tell him or her how to dress? If not, explain why the two of you have different amounts of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/87 "2013-03-27T22:33:06Z")
**Una** , I can’t help but think some of your success is because you were well known and respected prior to your transition. When some knows you, and you come out with something like this and you are very visibly happier and more content people are more inclined to be sympathetic. That’s not to diminish all the other prep work you’ve done, of course, but when people who know you see that a change is really for the better they are more inclined to change prior opinions. Of course, social isolation is just one of the many problems all too common among transpeople. I’m hoping that we see a change as profound for them in the next couple decades as we’ve seen for homosexuals. I don’t have any illusions things will be perfect but I’ll settle for better. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/88 "2013-03-27T23:43:59Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Life is awesome and beautiful. I’m fully transitioned and everything worked out. It took a long time and I had to be patient to the point of self-destruction, but by God I made it. No speed limit; this is the fast lane. I normally hate to be a non-participating cheerleader in a GD thread, but really that is pretty fucking awesome. Congratulations to you in this excellent transition in your life :). ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/89 "2013-03-28T04:37:18Z")
Most interesting thread. Una rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/90 "2013-03-28T07:15:23Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Importantly, I was always nice to people at work This, I think, is very important. I remember an interview on TV, with a group of fully-transitioned MtoF, where they’d had it rougher or easier but only one had been surprised at the negative reactions; she’d thought it would just be a matter of going on vacation as Fred, coming back as Julie and nobody would so much as remark on the change of look. Thing is, when she’d talked about her life before being out, it turned out she’d not just taken advantage of her XY genetics repeatedly (several promotions over female contenders with better qualifications, for example), but justified them. “Well, the women could have gotten pregnant, you know… and even if they don’t, they’re eventually likely to be caring for ailing parents…” “Ah, taking care of parents is women’s work?” “😕 Yes, of course.” One of the women in the almost-fully-female audience ripped her a line of holes up one side and down the other, to great applause (including nods, golf claps and applause from the other panelists). She was everything we hated about a Certain Type of Male Coworker :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/91 "2013-03-28T08:01:52Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Lol, and 3 people had the same train of thought as me. > > There’s a reviewer on the Gamespot crew who is transgender. Her name is Carolyn Michelle. I enjoy her reviews, as they tend to be well thought out, well written, and very thorough. I may not always agree with her conclusions, but I always learn a lot about a game from her discussion of it. > > Of course, whenever she does a video review, 99.9% of the comments are hateful commentaries on her. No surprise, as the internet is essentially evil, but man, that’s got to be some soul breaking ordeal for her. > > I may not wholly understand the issues involved in being a transgender person, but I can absolutely empathize with their current treatment in society. In the Something Awful Let’s Play scene there’s Dazzling Addar, who had done several Let’s Plays as a man. Recently she started going on hormones and her voice began to change. The Goons… did not take it well. I **think** they eventually started probating people in her Yoshi’s Story thread and Vicas’ Yoshi’s Island thread for commenting on her voice if for no reason other than people stopped talking about the game and solely focused on Addar’s voice. To be somewhat fair, for a very long time it wasn’t known that Addar was transitioning and it really did sound like “he” was intentionally affecting some higher pitched nasally voice (some people called it “his LP voice”). People started to shut up more once she actually came out (though by no means did they shut up completely). Half the youtube comments on videos with her are still lolololAddar’sVoicelololol. ---
**Author:** ![vd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b19c9b/32.png) [@vd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vd)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/92 "2013-03-28T16:01:53Z")
Alas. [Arizona Transgender Bathroom Bill OK’d By State House Panel](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28/arizona-transgender-bathroom-bill-_n_2968629.html). ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/93 "2013-03-28T16:27:48Z")
I am so sick of bathrooms. Trans people are not always in them. Legal gender identity and all of its implications, insurance coverage, medical care, mismatching IDs, passports that don’t match what the guy sees in the body scanner, background checks revealing “wrong” gender, rights of trans adolescents to determine their own medical care and gender identity… Gender can pop up in a hundred ways everyday that non-trans people never even notice. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/94 "2013-04-04T08:56:33Z")
I still will never get the bathroom thing. No one seems to get into a tizzy about gay people going to the same bathrooms as straights. And at least they might conceivably be looking at you. What exactly do these people fear that trans people will do while in the same bathroom? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/95 "2013-04-04T09:29:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What exactly do these people fear that trans people will do while in the same bathroom? Suddenly change gender and go on a raping spree, sparing no one within the public conveniences. I mean, that’s what trans people do, right? They’ve got magic genitalia that can morph back and forth. I’m sure I read that in a tract somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/96 "2013-04-05T03:05:35Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > This is one of those things flogged by a lot of social conservatives, and it kinda parallels the “homosexuality is a choice” thing: > > “Well, OBVIOUSLY, a pedophile/rapist would be willing to face huge social stigma, therapy bills, and invasive hormonal and (potentially) surgical intervention to radically change their biology…for the privilege of walking unimpeded into the women’s restroom.” > > It doesn’t make the slightest bit of sense if you even stop for a second to think it through logically, and in point of fact not officially recognizing gender changes makes the proposed phenomena worse since there’s no universally applicable legal way to distinguish “MTF transgendered person, transitioned” from “guy who took a lot of disguise classes”. The fact that the latter (guy with good makeup/disguise sneaking into women’s restroom to sexually assault people/be a voyeur) is literally unheard of (especially compared to the number of men who would hide in a women’s restroom or plant a hidden camera or whatever, which DOES occur enough to hear about it) is enough to convince me that the whole thing is a made-up problem that exists solely to have something sexually criminal to pin to transgendered individuals. And of course it’s especially galling because it is precisely trans people who are the ones at risk of harassment and assault in public bathrooms. We just went through a round of attempted potty panic fomenting up here in connection with the NDP’s gender identity anti-discrimination bill that just passed the House of Commons last month. It was all pretty gross. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/97 "2013-04-05T03:19:41Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > In my fantasy life I sport no makeup, a shaved head and wear the hiking, paddling, and gardening clothes that suit my hobbies. But in my real life my identity is partially tied to looking girly though I do mostly guy things, and the men I’ve loved have desired that feminine look that is sometimes play, sometimes a huge pain in the ass. I can see both sides, though the middle ground seems the safest place to grow for most of us. I should also point out that there are lots of trans women who prefer a more butch style, and lots of trans men who prefer a more femme style – much as with cis people. The boy I like, before he transitioned, always wore butch clothing to ease his dysphoria and try to be read as a woman as little as possible. The more people gender him correctly in his life, the more comfortable he feels doing things like painting his nails and wearing eye shadow and bright colours. Sadly, it often has been and in all too many places still is the case that if you are going to get anywhere with the shrinks, you have to be as traditionally masculine/feminine as all get out. Actually, some places won’t even approve you if you’re gay, lesbian, or bisexual (the theory was that lesbian trans women are simply “autogynephiles,” or men turned on by the idea of themselves as women, and that gay or bi trans men just don’t exist, which LOL). Also, as Julia Serano points out in her excellent book _Whipping Girl_, trans women are in a double bind here. In trans women’s case, if they dress more feminine, they’ll get accused of caricaturing femininity, but if they don’t, they’ll get accused of really being men. Actually, it very much resembles the various other double binds that patriarchy puts all women in. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/98 "2013-04-06T06:21:21Z")
GODDAMN YOU, **matt\_mcl**!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: I was going to reply to that specific post and make exactly the same point about the number of psych\*ists who won’t approve unless you outwardly stick to very strict gender roles. AND I even had a goddamn Goodreads link to Serano’s _Whipping Girl_ (and I’m on my phone, man!) and THEN YOU HAD TO BE THE VERY LAST POST AND STEAL MY FUCKING THUNDER!!! But seriously, it just proves we’re both awesome and have great taste in books. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2013, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/99 "2013-04-06T10:49:16Z")
I will never understand, as a gay male myself, why so many gays and lesbians abhor or even look down on transgendered people. I sometimes even feel like gays are even more catty/disrespectful than heterosexuals at large. It baffles me and sickens me. I hope someday gender is much better understood by society at large, and people don’t have to be ashamed of wanting to change outwardly to match the way they have always felt inwardly. I can’t even imagine how painful all of that would be ☹ I am outraged by things like the Arizona bill to “protect” employers and business owners who don’t want to let transgendered people use the bathroom of their choice. It’s just… so sad, I rarely get worked up over things like this but it really physically makes me feel sick and mentally depresses me. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859/100 "2013-04-06T21:58:29Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I will never understand, as a gay male myself, why so many gays and lesbians abhor or even look down on transgendered people. I sometimes even feel like gays are even more catty/disrespectful than heterosexuals at large. It baffles me and sickens me. I hear reports continuously on this subject. In my personal experience, the only transphobic behavior I’ve experienced from the LGB community is from gay males. They will walk by and make little comments about genitals, come up to a transwoman clearly presenting as female and go out of their way to call them male pronouns. A t-girl friend of mine was asked to “prove” she was a girl by “showing her tits” to a group of gay men, and another was told she should prove she was a girl by “sucking our dicks.” And no, I don’t understand it. I mean, I sort of do from reading so much about it, but I still don’t think the reasons justify the abuse on transpeople. I’ve escaped a lot of it because I pass. The worst experience I had was when me and three g-girls were playing pool, and a guy came over, prompted by his giggling friends at another table (they were in their late 20’s and acting like teenagers), and rudely, somewhat in a hostile manner too, demanded to know which ones of us were g-girls and which t-girls because they had “a bet.” :rolleyes: As it happens they had pegged one of the g-girls as t and the rest of us as g. None of us felt good about themselves that night. I’ve never experienced intolerance from a lesbian, but I do know others have. But for every gay male who has been rude to me or my friends, there are 10 or more who are polite, friendly, and just normal folks who are very happy to talk to you, dance with you, play pool, whatever. It’s not widespread IME, just very off-putting when it happens. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trans-issues-or-the-politics-of-transsexuality/653859.md?page=6)