# Transexuality in non-human animals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 12, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transexuality-in-non-human-animals/762533 "2016-08-12T06:14:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transexuality-in-non-human-animals/762533/21 "2016-08-22T02:15:33Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > I would fall back on the theme of Melville’s _Moby Dick_. Namely that you can’t get revenge on an animal. You have to be sufficiently self-aware to be able to feel complex higher emotions like revenge or transgenderism. That begs the question of whether or not transgenderism is a “higher emotion”; to my knowledge it doesn’t appear to be. It’s a body/brain mismatch; an animal might not suffer from some of the higher-level social/identity issues a human does, but they’ll still suffer the mental distress caused by hormone incompatibility, the sense of dysmorphia, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transexuality-in-non-human-animals/762533/22 "2016-08-22T02:18:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I recall that there’s one that went even further than that lion and takes on the full social role of a male lion (as in, actually killing the pride leader of another pride and assuming the lead role). Have they captured this lioness and done an exam? If she’s growing a mane I’d guess she’s some kind of hermaphrodite or has some other hormonal problem, perhaps due to a tumor, not transgender. Quite a few mammals are born physically inter-sex due to chromosomal abnormalities or birth defects, but being transgender is a different thing altogether. Being transgender means you are physically one sex and feel you should be the other one, so I guess the brain didn’t get the correct message during development. I don’t dispute the condition exists, I just can’t figure out how you’d tell if a non-verbal animal was experiencing it or was capable of experiencing it. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transexuality-in-non-human-animals/762533/23 "2016-08-22T04:24:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That begs the question of whether or not transgenderism is a “higher emotion”; to my knowledge it doesn’t appear to be. It’s a body/brain mismatch; an animal might not suffer from some of the higher-level social/identity issues a human does, but they’ll still suffer the mental distress caused by hormone incompatibility, the sense of dysmorphia, and so on. True. I wasn’t trying to start a nature/nurture debate, I have no doubt sexual orientation is ‘hard-wired’ in the brain. But it’s consequences in terms of social norms and acceptability simply don’t really apply that well to the animal kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transexuality-in-non-human-animals/762533/24 "2016-08-22T13:32:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **spamforbrains** : > > Quite a few mammals are born physically inter-sex due to chromosomal abnormalities or birth defects, but being transgender is a different thing altogether. I would dispute that. If one grants that there is such a thing as “brain gender”, or whatever one calls it, then having one’s brain gender not match one’s genitalia gender would just be yet one more type of inter-sex condition, no different in principle from not having one’s genitalia match one’s hormones or chromosomes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transexuality-in-non-human-animals/762533.md?page=1)