# Transferring private handgun in Missouri **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584 "2019-10-28T12:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/1 "2019-10-28T12:25:15Z")
Greetings, TM! My husband (a Virginia resident) will be visiting his father (a Missouri resident, henceforth referred to as FIL) in a few weeks. FIL is in not-great health, and we suspect he is subtly “getting his affairs in order.” One of the things FIL would like to do while my husband is there is to give him a 9mm handgun that FIL has owned for many decades. He has been promising my husband that he will inherit the gun since husband was 9, so the gun has been in the family for at least 40 years. From what I can tell, private handgun transfers of this type do not require a firearms dealer middleman if both parties are MO residents. What about if one of the parties is an out of state resident? Husband is a retired Marine and is a bit anal about paperwork, so he is already going to ensure that his dad writes up a “bill of sale” that they will both sign. Any insight is very appreciated!! And if you have tips on ensuring he can get it onto the plane (checked luggage) and back to Virginia, those are welcome as well. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/2 "2019-10-28T13:51:14Z")
I don’t know the best answer. I know one way is for your father to ship it to a gun dealer where your husband lives and for your husband buy it from them. That is, the gun dealer in your husband’s state will effect the interstate transfer and charge your husband some money (let’s say $40 or so) to do the paperwork. A terrible and illegal way to do this is for your husband to come from out of state and buy the gun from his father. Unless your husband has a gun dealer license, he will be illegally engaging in interstate trafficking in handguns, which is a federal crime. [https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/3 "2019-10-28T13:52:40Z")
They need to do this transfer through an FFL (gun store). ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/4 "2019-10-28T14:16:51Z")
What they said. to be safest, I would probably contact a gun shop near where your FIL lives as well as one in VA near where you live, and see what they say. They should be pretty familiar with the process. you may need to have a MO FFL holder ship it to the VA FFL holder, and have the VA FFL holder go through the paperwork for the transfer. (these things can be “easy” or “difficult” depending on what state you’re in. IIRC “across state lines” tends to put things on the “difficult” side.) ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/5 "2019-10-28T17:03:51Z")
Thanks for the responses so far. As suggested, I chatted with two very nice gentlemen at gun stores in MO. Both gave the same advice: fill out a bill of sale from FIL to husband for $1 that has both parties’ and the gun’s information, then ship the gun via FexEx or UPS to VA, signature required. Keep the paperwork in the gun safe for a minimum of 7 years, and after that husband can sell the gun if he wants (he won’t). The reason they suggested shipping instead of packing it in the checked luggage was for an extra layer of security- they’ve known people whose guns have been stolen from luggage, and if there’s a tracking number and the package goes missing, it’s easier to narrow down where things went awry. But both said as long as it’s in a locked container and he declares it, he can bring it back to VA with him on the plane. The other option is to do a face-to-face transfer at the gun store where the dealer does a quick background check on husband, and FIL literally hands the gun to him after it comes back clean. $10 for that at the first store, $25 at the second. Apparently because VA does not require guns to be registered, and MO has a loose private party-to-private party process, this is fairly straightforward. I’m going to call the dealer where we’ve purchased our last few guns here in VA just to check things from this end, since the answers I got from MO are so… interesting. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/6 "2019-10-28T17:17:02Z")
Yikes. Those gun stores gave you _terrible_ advice. I’m very disappointed. [You (or your husband, in this case) can’t purchase a handgun in a state that you are not a resident of, such as Missouri.](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-licensee-sell-firearm-nonlicensee-who-resident-another-state) [The handgun needs to be shipped to an FFL dealer in Virginia and your husband needs to go there, and go through a background check, to take legal possession of it.](https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/how-may-unlicensed-person-receive-firearm-his-or-her-state-he-or-she) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/7 "2019-10-28T17:44:13Z")
I realized there’s another assumption I’m making about your husband here (that he’s not a prohibited person), which while probably true, is worth getting explicit information about: Is your husband a [prohibited person](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-prohibited-persons) (felon, dishonorable discharge, misdemeanor DV conviction, illegal drug user, illegal alien, restraining order, etc)? If he is, he can’t legally purchase / possess a firearm, and attempting to do so has a good chance of landing him in very real legal peril. Assuming he’s not a prohibited person, the legal way to transfer the firearm is to ship it to a Virginia FFL dealer (I’d call them and ask for how they want to handle this transfer and follow their procedures) and have your husband go there and go through the background check procedure, and take possession of the gun. > [@](#): > > [How may an unlicensed person receive a firearm in his or her State that he or she purchased from an out–of–State source? > > An unlicensed person who is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms may purchase a firearm from an out–of–State source, provided the transfer takes place through a Federal firearms licensee in his or her State of residence.]([https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/how-may-unlicensed-person-receive-firearm-his-or-her-state-he-or-she](https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/how-may-unlicensed-person-receive-firearm-his-or-her-state-he-or-she)) ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/8 "2019-10-28T17:44:20Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > I’m going to call the dealer where we’ve purchased our last few guns here in VA just to check things from this end, since the answers I got from MO are so… interesting. Those answers aren’t just interesting; they are wrong. Your husband is not a resident of Missouri. He is a resident of Virginia. Under federal law, he can not buy a handgun outside of Virginia, not for a dollar, a cent, or even a button, unless he is a Federal Firearms Licensee. If he was an FFL holder, he should not be coming here for advice because he should already know this. For what it’s worth, there is no need or benefit under federal law to go through a gun dealer in Missouri. Your father-in-law can use a common carrier (not the U.S. Postal Service) to ship the gun to the Virginia dealer of your choice. Then, you’re husband will fill out the paperwork at that dealer and get the gun from them. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/9 "2019-10-28T19:19:29Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Those answers aren’t just interesting; they are wrong. Your husband is not a resident of Missouri. He is a resident of Virginia. Under federal law, he can not buy a handgun outside of Virginia, not for a dollar, a cent, or even a button, unless he is a Federal Firearms Licensee. What if the FIL goes to Virginia, and THEN sells him the gun for $1. Is that legal? ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/10 "2019-10-28T19:21:58Z")
Husband is definitely not a prohibited person. 🙂 Nor is he a FFL holder. I called the VA store where we (well, he) purchased our last guns from. I very, very clearly stated that FIL is a resident of MO, currently living there, and that husband is a resident of VA, living here. I also made sure the clerk I was speaking to handled the paperwork end of things, and wasn’t just a cashier/randomly standing in for someone. He said the same thing the MO folks did. The only thing he added was that FIL can choose to come here to VA, bring the gun with him in his checked luggage (in a locked hard-sided case), and leave it behind for husband- no harm, no foul, no need to get a FFL holder in VA involved. FIL does not travel due to his health (he missed husband’s retirement from the USMC _and_ our wedding), so this is right out. If FIL _did_ travel to VA and wanted to do the “face to face at the gun store exchange” that MO offered, it would be $40 for the paperwork plus $2 for the background check. Everything’s more expensive in VA. The rep did say that things would be very different if we were trying this in CA/NY/OR/a handful of other states, but because VA does not have a gun registry and the exchange is between family members, even though it’s between out-of-state parties it’s in the clear. The store I called handles the majority of sales to military folks in our area (a not-inconsequential number of people) and used to have a satellite store on a local military base, so I would hope they are aware of current regulations _and_ handling sales where the individual’s official state of residency is not the same as where they reside/where the gun is being purchased. I have to admit that I am even _more_ confused now than I was previously. ☹ Is it **possible** that it’s because it’s an exchange between family members? When FIL first talked about leaving husband the gun in his will, he had checked on the legalities there, and it turned out that the executor could ship the gun directly to my husband without involving a FFL holder as long as the gun was specifically identified by description and serial number in the will (that came directly from a lawyer). I’m thinking that I’m just going to pass all this information on to my husband and let him figure out how he wants to handle it. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/11 "2019-10-28T19:30:07Z")
Too late to edit. I believe this is the most appropriate federal regulation, from the ATF page: "Q: What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction? When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same-State” residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer. There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements. Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer’s State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping. See also Question B3." But both states are saying otherwise, and the VA folks flat-out said not to ship it to them. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/12 "2019-10-28T19:30:46Z")
And the FFL only needs to be involved on the Virginia side, FIL can package and ship it himself, though he may wish to go through a dealer to save the legwork. USPS won’t ship handguns, so UPS or Fedex. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/13 "2019-10-28T19:31:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What if the FIL goes to Virginia, and THEN sells him the gun for $1. Is that legal? If FIL _MOVES_ to Virginia, then he can sell / gift the handgun to a fellow Virginia resident without issue (barring some Virginia state-level laws that I may not be aware of). As long as he’s a resident of Missouri, he can’t do a private-party sale of a handgun to a resident of another state without involving an FFL. To do so is to invite federal felony charges along the lines “arms trafficking” or something to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/14 "2019-10-28T19:38:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If FIL _MOVES_ to Virginia, then he can sell / gift the handgun to a fellow Virginia resident without issue (barring some Virginia state-level laws that I may not be aware of). As long as he’s a resident of Missouri, he can’t do a private-party sale of a handgun to a resident of another state without involving an FFL. To do so is to invite federal felony charges along the lines “arms trafficking” or something to that effect. Ok, thanks. Could he just mail it to the son and that would be it? He doesn’t have to report that he is giving his gun to the son, or the fact that he doesn’t have possession of the gun anymore, does he? And the son doesn’t have to register the gun or report that he has possession of the gun, right? (not an anti-gun question, just curious about the rules) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/15 "2019-10-28T19:56:35Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > … I have to admit that I am even _more_ confused now than I was previously. ☹ Is it **possible** that it’s because it’s an exchange between family members? … I suppose it’s possible. I’m quite knowledgeable about firearms laws, but it IS a confusing morass, so it’s possible that there’s some intra-family transfer exception I’m unaware of. These IS an exception for inheritance after the owner’s death, but I don’t think that applies here if the FIL is still alive. All I can do is point you (and your husband) to information from various source, and politely encourage you to keep contacting various Virginia FFLs until you find one willing to assist in the inter-state transfer. I’m saddened that the three you’ve reached out to so far have given such appalling-bad advice. Aside from the ATF links above, here are some more to bolster my case, from various sources, including some anti-gun ones: [NRA](https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/6/buying-and-selling-a-firearm-online-and-interstate-gun-sales/): > [@](#): > > Federal law for interstate gun sales and other transfers – those occurring between two people who are not Federal Firearm Licensees (FFLs) who live in different states — is pretty straightforward. A person who is not an FFL cannot acquire a handgun from anyone – an FFL or any other person – who lives in another state. [Giffords Law Center](https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/interstate-and-online-gun-sales/): > [@](#): > > Under federal law, anyone who does not have a federal gun dealer license, or other Federal Firearms License (FFL), is generally prohibited from acquiring a handgun directly from a seller or transferor who resides in a different state.4 This means that people generally cannot obtain handguns out of state and then transport them into their state of residence, and cannot otherwise receive a handgun from an out-of-state seller or transferor without the assistance of a licensed dealer in their home state. > > People may acquire handguns from out-of-state sellers or transferors if the sale or transfer of the weapon is conducted through a licensed dealer in the recipient’s state of residence.5 In other words, a person in one state may buy a handgun online from a licensed or unlicensed seller in another state so long as the handgun is shipped to a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s home state who facilitates the sale. Usually, gun dealers will charge a small fee for providing this service, conducting a background check, and fulfilling other requirements. > > One exception to this requirement is when a person inherits a handgun through a will or other inheritance after its owner’s death. In these cases, the person may receive the handgun directly without the involvement of an in-state gun dealer, as long as the person inheriting the handgun complies with any applicable gun laws in his or her own state regarding possession of the weapon.6 [durysguns.com](https://www.durysguns.com/) > [@](#): > > Person-to-Person Transfers > > This is how these kinds of transactions work: Uncle Harry is coming in for a visit from another state and wants to stay with his favorite nephew, Johnny, for a while. Harry remembers that Johnny always admired his pearl-handled Colt revolver, and he decides to stow it in his suitcase and surprise Johnny with it. Just a little friendly exchange between relatives; nothing the matter with that, right? > > Wrong. Harry is well within his rights to transfer ownership of the weapon to his nephew, but simply giving it directly to Johnny makes him a gun trafficker in the eyes of the law. To make it legal, Harry should follow the FFL-to-FFL procedure previously discussed. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/16 "2019-10-28T20:07:38Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Ok, thanks. > > Could he just mail it to the son and that would be it? He doesn’t have to report that he is giving his gun to the son, or the fact that he doesn’t have possession of the gun anymore, does he? And the son doesn’t have to register the gun or report that he has possession of the gun, right? > > (not an anti-gun question, just curious about the rules) It’s going to depend somewhat on the state’s laws. In my state (Utah), for example, I could ship a handgun (don’t use the US Postal Service, which “mail” seems to imply) via a common carrier like UPS or FedEx to a family member or friend (assuming they are not a prohibited person) in another part of Utah without any issues. Here, like many states, there’s no registration / reporting requirement, and the transfer would be in compliance with federal laws: > [@](#): > > [ **May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?** > > A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.]([https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier)) Some (usually “blue”) states have enacted bans on these private-party transfers or other registration or reporting requirements. I’d encourage anyone and everyone to check their local laws before transferring a firearm. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/17 "2019-10-28T20:09:11Z")
Cool, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/18 "2019-10-28T20:50:33Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > I called the VA store where we (well, he) purchased our last guns from. I very, very clearly stated that FIL is a resident of MO, currently living there, and that husband is a resident of VA, living here. I also made sure the clerk I was speaking to handled the paperwork end of things, and wasn’t just a cashier/randomly standing in for someone. Did you very clearly state that (1) this is a handgun and (2) that your husband plans to buy this from his father with a signed bill of sale and everything? Also, do you usually take legal advice from store clerks that contradicts information from the federal law enforcement agency in charge of enforcing that rule says? > [@bobkitty](#): > > He said the same thing the MO folks did. The only thing he added was that FIL can choose to come here to VA, bring the gun with him in his checked luggage (in a locked hard-sided case), and leave it behind for husband- no harm, no foul, no need to get a FFL holder in VA involved. FIL does not travel due to his health (he missed husband’s retirement from the USMC _and_ our wedding), so this is right out. If FIL _did_ travel to VA and wanted to do the “face to face at the gun store exchange” that MO offered, it would be $40 for the paperwork plus $2 for the background check. Everything’s more expensive in VA. “Leave it behind” is not the same as “dad writes up a ‘bill of sale’ that they will both sign.” The written bill of sale will be evidence of a crime. In fact, though, the fact that this is a purchase rather than a gift does not matter. Your husband can’t import the handgun into Virginia because he is not a federally-licensed gun dealer, importer, manufacturer, or collector. > [@](#): > > [27 CFR § 478.29](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.29) Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees. > No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained [this means even if it’s given to him by his father] by such person outside that State: Provided, That the provisions of this section: > > (a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, [so if your FIL dies, your husband can inherit it, as long as he can purchase or possess it in Virginia.] > > (b) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a rifle or shotgun obtained from a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector in a State other than the transferee’s State of residence in an over-the-counter transaction at the licensee’s premises obtained in conformity with the provisions of § 478.96(c) and [This paragraph isn’t relevant but if your husband bought a rifle from outside the state through a dealer, he could keep it, subject to that other regulation.] > > (c) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with the provisions of §§ 478.30 and 478.97. [These provisions are also irrelevant, and deal with either renting firearms or inheriting them] Your father can’t give the handgun to your husband. > [@](#): > > [27 CFR § 478.30](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.30) Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees. > No nonlicensee [that is, someone like your FIL] shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in…the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section: > > (a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence [so your husband could inherit the gun]; and > > (b) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes. > [@bobkitty](#): > > The rep did say that things would be very different if we were trying this in CA/NY/OR/a handful of other states, but because VA does not have a gun registry and the exchange is between family members, even though it’s between out-of-state parties it’s in the clear. The store I called handles the majority of sales to military folks in our area (a not-inconsequential number of people) and used to have a satellite store on a local military base, so I would hope they are aware of current regulations _and_ handling sales where the individual’s official state of residency is not the same as where they reside/where the gun is being purchased. The critical lesson from this warning is to comply with the state requirements where the transfer takes place. Both parties need to comply with the possession requirements and the transfer requirements, whatever those might be. Since it sounds like you plan to do the transfer in Missouri, look at Missouri’s law. Does Missouri law allow the transfer of handguns to family members who are out-of-state residents who don’t have an FFL? At the very least, Missouri law prohibits your husband from buying the gun from his father, because it would also be a violation of federal law, as noted above. > [@V.A.M.S. 571.087 \[No publicly accessible link handy](#): > > ]Residents of any state may purchase firearms in the State of Missouri, provided that such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, and regulations thereunder, and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the State of Missouri and in the state in which such persons reside. I can’t see that your FIL giving the handgun to your husband would violate Missouri state law but I might have missed it because I didn’t look too hard. I don’t care to look harder because, in any event, it violates federal law. > [@bobkitty](#): > > I have to admit that I am even _more_ confused now than I was previously. ☹ Is it **possible** that it’s because it’s an exchange between family members? When FIL first talked about leaving husband the gun in his will, he had checked on the legalities there, and it turned out that the executor could ship the gun directly to my husband without involving a FFL holder as long as the gun was specifically identified by description and serial number in the will (that came directly from a lawyer). There is an exception in the federal law if your husband inherits the gun. Since dear FIL is not yet dead, this exception, and the lawyer’s advice, does not yet apply. > [@bobkitty](#): > > Too late to edit. I believe this is the most appropriate federal regulation, from the ATF page: > > "Q: What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction? > When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same-State” residents[but it is necessary if they reside in different states, like your FIL and husband]. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer. > > There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements. > > Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer’s State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping. See also Question B3." > > But both states are saying otherwise, and the VA folks flat-out said not to ship it to them. Sigh. Find another dealer in Virginia. Somebody has dealt with this before and it will only cost about $40. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/19 "2019-10-28T22:27:35Z")
I am not trying to be obstinate, and I genuinely appreciate all the information, but… how many dealers should I call? I’ve spoken with two in MO and two in VA and they are all saying the exact same thing with the following very specific information being provided: - Husband is a resident of VA - FIL is a resident of MO - FIL is giving the gun, a 9mm pistol that’s approximately 40 years old, to husband. - Husband is interested in picking the gun up in MO and transporting it back to VA, either via his flight home or via FedEx/UPS. It seems to me that large firearm dealers in military-heavy areas should be on the same page when it comes to state and federal law; do I call until I reach one that has a different answer than everyone else? I’m not opposed to that, but it’ll genuinely suck if the only people willing to assist with the transfer are on the other side of the state. If we need to wait until FIL passes and his will is probated so we can avoid this whole thing, then we can do that, but FIL would rather know the gun is being used and cared for… hence the reason for all the research. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584/20 "2019-10-28T22:45:38Z")
The ATF wouldn’t charge the dealers that gave you the bad advice. They would charge your husband and/or FIL. And “we called a bunch of FFLs and they all gave me the same advice” wouldn’t work well as a defense at trial. If it were me, and I didn’t want to wait until probate, I’d keep calling until I found one willing to help. Dozens if necessary. I’m not sure what part of Virginia you live in, but [here’s an example of one such dealer that offers transfers in Manassas (who, per their policy, would require the involvement of an MO FFL)](http://www.virginiaarms.com/transfer) and [another one in Richmond](https://colonialshooting.com/ffl-transfers-virginia/). [One last word of caution, from a Virginia lawyer, about the potential risks of probate transfers](https://johnpierceesq.com/crossing-state-lines-with-inherited-and-gifted-firearms/). IANAL, and I don’t know if he’s quite right, but if an ATF agent / prosecutor can convince a judge / jury, it doesn’t really matter. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transferring-private-handgun-in-missouri/842584.md?page=2)