# Transgender and public bathrooms **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190 "2016-04-14T16:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/182 "2016-04-20T18:15:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Hardly. The idea of unisex restrooms is a idea whose time has come. It will also shorten lines for the ladies room, at certain times, which is a good thing for everyone. Female SDMBers, what do you think? > > I often see Dads bring their little daughters into the mens room. No problem. > > When the line gets really super fucking long for the ladies, and none of the men, I have had the women "invade’ (their term) the mens. I only had a issue with that once, when they wouldn’t let any men in, otherwise, work for me. > > So, what’s _your_ issue with it? My issue is that you want to ignore what this thread is about, the _current_ problem of laws targeting gay and transgendered individuals, and turn it into a conversation about unisex bathrooms, which is a possibility for the future. There’s a fucking fight going on out there, and making unrealistic proposals that are sure to alienate lawmakers sure as fuck isn’t the way to go right now. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/183 "2016-04-20T18:20:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Except that in practice, it very often **does** hurt people who identify and present as one gender to use the restroom designated for the other gender. Look at the stats and personal experiences cited by earlier posters about the incidence of assaults on such people. I’m sorry, but I don’t see any stats related to gender-typical men being assaulted in a women’s restroom, nor do I see any related to gender-typical women being assaulted in a men’s restroom. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/184 "2016-04-20T18:26:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > My issue is that you want to ignore what this thread is about, the _current_ problem of laws targeting gay and transgendered individuals, and turn it into a conversation about unisex bathrooms, which is a possibility for the future. There’s a fucking fight going on out there, and making unrealistic proposals that are sure to alienate lawmakers sure as fuck isn’t the way to go right now. Only one conversation about one topic is allowed at a time in a thread? I didn’t know you were the thread police. Do you have a badge or a Taser? Laws targeting gay and transgendered individuals that force them to use bathrooms that cause them danger and threats are wrong! There, you happy? we are all in agreement. Now, on to unisex bathrooms! And after that - coed showers! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/185 "2016-04-20T18:28:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When the line gets really super fucking long for the ladies, and none of the men, I have had the women "invade’ (their term) the mens. I only had a issue with that once, when they wouldn’t let any men in, otherwise, work for me. A place wouldn’t let you in the men’s room because there were women using it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/186 "2016-04-20T18:40:38Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Only one conversation about one topic is allowed at a time in a thread? I didn’t know you were the thread police. Do you have a badge or a Taser? > > Laws targeting gay and transgendered individuals that force them to use bathrooms that cause them danger and threats are wrong! There, you happy? And a proposal that you and **DrDeth** support instead of letting transgendered individuals use the bathrooms they feel comfortable in, unisex bathrooms, wouldn’t stand a chance in hell of passing because it would play into the hands of every fearmonger out there. Would that make _you_ happy? Which side are you on, again? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/187 "2016-04-20T18:43:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And a proposal that you and **DrDeth** support instead of letting transgendered individuals use the bathrooms they feel comfortable in, unisex bathrooms, wouldn’t stand a chance in hell of passing because it would play into the hands of every fearmonger out there. Would that make _you_ happy? > Which side are you on, again? How do unisex bathrooms prevent transgendered individuals from using the bathrooms they feel comfortable in? And I don’t believe anyone has stated we should do anything INSTEAD OF letting transgendered individuals use the bathroom they feel comfortable in. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/188 "2016-04-20T18:44:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > A place wouldn’t let you in the men’s room because there were women using it? The women barred the door. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/189 "2016-04-20T18:48:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Only one conversation about one topic is allowed at a time in a thread? I didn’t know you were the thread police. Do you have a badge or a Taser? > > Laws targeting gay and transgendered individuals that force them to use bathrooms that cause them danger and threats are wrong! There, you happy? we are all in agreement. Now, on to unisex bathrooms! And after that - coed showers! Yes, we’re pretty much in agreement on that. Unisex bathrooms are a long term solution and are the wave of the future. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/190 "2016-04-20T18:49:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The women barred the door. Strange, not sure I’ve ever seen something like that. The good news is unisex bathrooms will prevent that from happening 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/191 "2016-04-20T18:57:02Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Strange, not sure I’ve ever seen something like that. The good news is unisex bathrooms will prevent that from happening 😃 Only once in my many years, and I wasnt even pissed\*, just annoyed. The line for the ladies had been _crazy_ long. Nowadays, I’d just suggest sharing. Once in a great while, when the mens is empty but the ladies is around the block, I will suggest that. - pun not intended. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/192 "2016-04-20T19:06:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, we’re pretty much in agreement on that. > > Unisex bathrooms are a long term solution and are the wave of the future. Maybe so–but cultural norms **right now** are apparently leaning toward maintaining gendered bathrooms with the proviso that people use the one that matches their sincere gender identity. I get that you think unisex bathrooms are the perfect, but don’t let that be the enemy of the good. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/193 "2016-04-20T19:10:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Maybe so–but cultural norms **right now** are apparently leaning toward maintaining gendered bathrooms with the proviso that people use the one that matches their sincere gender identity. I get that you think unisex bathrooms are the perfect, but don’t let that be the enemy of the good. It seems to me that cultural norms ARE moving towards unisex bathrooms, especially with younger generations. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/194 "2016-04-21T00:31:00Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Incorrect. Start reading WPATH7 and work your way from there for evidence of a physical difference between transgender and cisgender people’s brains. Or try [this](http://transascity.org/the-transgender-brain/). Did you write that article, Una? Thank you for sharing that. I’ve been struggling with my own position on transgenderism in general, and your article actually summed up my position early on, I’m ashamed to admit. Yes, I have been one of those who take the “A person can claim they are Napoleon, that doesn’t make it true!” types. I am an empiricist, however, and your article gives me some data points to straighten myself out. Again, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/195 "2016-04-21T01:08:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It seems to me that cultural norms ARE moving towards unisex bathrooms, especially with younger generations. Moving toward? Show me some evidence. I have no dog in that particular fight either way. But for now, cultural norms ain’t there yet. Let’s get the trans thing resolved first; complicating it with unisex bathrooms is unnecessary and counterproductive. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/196 "2016-04-21T01:29:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Moving toward? Show me some evidence. I have no dog in that particular fight either way. > > But for now, cultural norms ain’t there yet. Let’s get the trans thing resolved first; complicating it with unisex bathrooms is unnecessary and counterproductive. The “trans thing”? nice. I thought it WAS resolved - laws against transgender individuals choosing the safest bathroom and/or the bathroom of the gender they identify with are wrong. What more is there to resolve? This is a message board, not the floor of a state legislature. Would you say “cultural norms” are now at the “let trans-gendered people choose a restroom based on their gender identity”? If so, why are there so many people against it, and laws being enacted to stop it? What do you consider a “cultural norm”? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/197 "2016-04-21T15:53:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > See, I don’t think transmen figure into the thinking of “bathroom bill” advocates AT ALL. Nobody has yet answered when questioned about transmen like Buck Angel going into the ladies’ room. None. It’s like they don’t even see the question on their monitor. > > I think it’s a huge blind spot. They just either don’t know or don’t care that there are transmen out there. They’re only concerned about the transwomen. That’s why I don’t think it’s really a sexual activity thing at all…it’s a gender subversion thing. I don’t think either side has a Grand Unified Theory of Nakedness[sup]TM[/sup]. The only logically consistent one is “I don’t care who sees me naked in appropriate situations”. Once you start excluding groups it becomes very difficult to do so in a logically consistent manner. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/198 "2016-04-21T21:42:46Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I think it’s a huge blind spot. They just either don’t know or don’t care that there are transmen out there. They’re only concerned about the transwomen. That’s why I don’t think it’s really a sexual activity thing at all…it’s a gender subversion thing. Sort of, but I think what’s really behind it is that these people don’t think of transwomen they same way we do, they think of them as “weirdo perv men wearing dresses who want access to the ladies’ room.” If you consider that this is the attitude behind it all, you can see what motivates them. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/199 "2016-04-22T23:41:09Z")
Sorry, but I’m still giggling over SpoilerVirgin’s “a penis who looks like Caitlyn Jenner.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/200 "2016-04-23T01:57:30Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > Sorry, but I’m still giggling over SpoilerVirgin’s “a penis who looks like Caitlyn Jenner.” 🙂 Slighted aged, but fashionable? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/201 "2016-04-23T02:59:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Slighted aged, but fashionable? With a surprising right-ward lean? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190.md?page=11)