# Transgender and public bathrooms **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190 "2016-04-14T16:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/21 "2016-04-14T18:45:24Z")
The “Transgender in the wrong bathroom” is the biggest BS argument and anyone who thinks that hairy men in bad wigs are sneaking into women’s rooms for the lulls is either fearful or ignorant. 1. Non Cis-gendered people basically spend their whole life not quite fitting in; many suffer from anxiety or depression. How much attention do they want to draw on themselves in a bathroom? 2. Non Cis-gendered people just want to freaking go to the bathroom. Now they get to put up with this bullshit too. They’re not there to perv on you or your little daughter. How are they going to see your daughter anyway? Is she locked in a stall or peeing in a sink? 2.5. The actual number of transgender people arrested for perving in bathrooms compared to “family value” conservatives? The numbers may (not) shock you: > **[Fact: More Republican Politicians Caught In Bathroom Sexual Misconduct Than...](https://occupydemocrats.com/2016/04/13/gop-congressmen-get-kinky-bathrooms-transgender-folk/)** > > There have been no recorded instances of transgender harassment in bathrooms. As for Republicans, on the other hand... 1. North Carolina’s law isn’t just aimed at transgender people. It’s affects LGBT, women, and veterans. North Carolina is a big military state, what the hell are they thinking? 2. North Carolina’s law is specifically created to benefit rich, white, Christian males. If you’re not one of those, them’s the breaks. Dan Savage has some stuff on it: > **[Savage Love Letter of the Day: Bastards Out of North Carolina](https://www.thestranger.com/savage-love/2016/03/25/23868599/savage-love-letter-of-the-day-bastards-out-of-north-carolina)** > > North Carolina's Anti-Gay Tourism Commercial from Funny Or Die I'm pissed off at North Carolina over the anti-trans House Bill 2, and I'm sure many of your readers are too. I know that we still fail to have federal anti-discrimination protections for... ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/22 "2016-04-14T18:49:12Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > How did this law actually help guard against this supposed risk? It doesn’t. This law is meant to prevent penises from being in the women’s room, and to prevent vaginas from being in the men’s room. ---
**Author:** ![quiltguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e47774/32.png) [@quiltguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quiltguy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/23 "2016-04-14T19:03:15Z")
I can appreciate the hubbub, but it’s entirely overblown, if not a downright sham. Men have always been able to dress as the opposite sex, to try and get away with whatever they wanted to get away with in women’s facilities. I don’t recall countless instances of this happening, are arrest warrants stacking up like cordwood? Please enlighten me if I am mistaken. The hue and cry FOR these laws is just to up the “Ick Factor.” If ANYONE tries anything dodgy then they should be arrested, but don’t make it a condition of their genitals. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/24 "2016-04-14T23:06:59Z")
My wife says she doesnt want some man to be able to use a woman’s restroom just because he’s wearing a dress. Now I have no problem with family restrooms or restrooms open to both. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/25 "2016-04-14T23:26:47Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > It doesn’t. This law is meant to prevent penises from being in the women’s room, and to prevent vaginas from being in the men’s room. I think the law is to make all the transgender people leave North Carolina. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/26 "2016-04-14T23:27:47Z")
Honestly, I feel like many trans folk would have similar experiences in either restroom. Caitlin Jenner would make either gender uncomfortable (for those who express discomfort with the opposite sex using the same restroom), as men would not regard her as a real man and women would not recognize her as a real woman. Bigotry knows no gender. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/27 "2016-04-14T23:35:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > My wife says she doesnt want some man to be able to use a woman’s restroom just because he’s wearing a dress. Does she want some man–testosterone, beard and all–in there because he was born without a penis? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/28 "2016-04-14T23:38:59Z")
So what’s the wife’s strategy when she sees what she thinks is a man in the ladies room? Is she going to be cool, knowing he must have a vagina in his pants? Is she going to ask him? Or just freak out because there’s a man in the ladies room? If he says he’s got a vagina in his pants, is that enough for her? Is she going to ask to see it? Is she honestly going to be cool with any of this? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/29 "2016-04-14T23:41:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > By the way, if you’re peeking under stalls to see if the person next door has the right equipment, _you’re_ the one with the problem that should be reported immediately. To be fair, my wife pointed out that when she was working at Dayton-Hudson about 20 years ago, they were notified that there were several transgender women on their floor, and it was pretty obvious when the person in the next stall walked in and peed standing up, no “peeking under the stalls” was required. Obviously, immediately fixable by the women (sit down), but still. ---
**Author:** ![Theios](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@Theios](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theios)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/30 "2016-04-15T00:04:08Z")
I have a pretty androgynous appearance, and have been often mistaken for a male my entire life. I am 100% woman, and I identify as a woman. I am now worried about stopping in NC to use the restroom, for fear of there being an incident. Screw this stupid law. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/31 "2016-04-15T00:39:53Z")
First of all, men all turn into 14-year-olds as soon as they cross the threshold of the men’s room, so woe be it unto any vaginas that walk in. It’s not the guys who should be worried. As for the women, I can see that there might be some concern about being in an enclosed place with no security visible, no security cameras (obviously) but with just you and someone who obviously has a male body. It’s not about someone seeing you pee or being in your private space. It’s you bing in a place where you feel unsafe. I honestly don’t know what the answer is. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/32 "2016-04-15T00:56:04Z")
Per the law: This guy needs to use the women’s room: > Angelica Ross needs to use the men’s room: > **[From Showgirl to CEO: Trans Businesswoman Angelica Ross Tells All](https://www.advocate.com/print-issue/current-issue/2015/09/01/showgirl-ceo-trans-businesswoman-angelica-ross-tells-all)** > > The former lounge singer tells The Advocate how she survived sex work and a suicide attempt, found spirituality, and made peace with her mom. She's one of this issue's Vanguard. Again, these laws aren’t designed to protect your children, they’re designed to discriminate. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/33 "2016-04-15T01:06:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If your purpose for visiting the restroom is to engage in perversions, that’s _still_ a crime regardless of what your gender is or which restroom you’re in. ^ This really can not be repeated often enough. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/34 "2016-04-15T01:15:39Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Per the law: > > This guy needs to use the women’s room: > [x.com](https://twitter.com/JayShef/status/712845760287494144) > > Angelica Ross needs to use the men’s room: > [From Showgirl to CEO: Trans Businesswoman Angelica Ross Tells All](http://www.advocate.com/print-issue/current-issue/2015/09/01/showgirl-ceo-trans-businesswoman-angelica-ross-tells-all) > > Again, these laws aren’t designed to protect your children, they’re designed to discriminate. Indeed, though not QUITE in the way some may think. As pointed out elsewhere on this board, I believe, the goal is to societally discourage, maybe eventually outlaw, transitioning. Because conservative lawmakers think that the people in your links need to be treated for mental illness, not “coddled” and “having their parts chopped off” and “deceiving” others. The bathroom part is, in one sense, beside the point. The actual goal is to tell transgender people of any stage that they’re crazy and sick. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/35 "2016-04-15T01:23:43Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > 2.5. The actual number of transgender people arrested for perving in bathrooms compared to “family value” conservatives? The numbers may (not) shock you: > [http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/04/13/gop-congressmen-get-kinky-bathrooms-transgender-folk/](http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/04/13/gop-congressmen-get-kinky-bathrooms-transgender-folk/) I agree that the laws in question are misguided and should be repealed. But that does not mean I should let falsehoods pass unremarked. Or does it? This particular falsehood that your link contains supports a view that I also support. On a message board that purports to fight ignorance, should I call out the falsehood? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/36 "2016-04-15T01:51:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree that the laws in question are misguided and should be repealed. > > But that does not mean I should let falsehoods pass unremarked. > > Or does it? This particular falsehood that your link contains supports a view that I also support. On a message board that purports to fight ignorance, should I call out the falsehood? In a world full of falsehoods, how should you prioritize your time pointing them out? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/37 "2016-04-15T02:04:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In a world full of falsehoods, how should you prioritize your time pointing them out? So, one vote from Czarcasm for not mentioning it? To answer the question: I’m not concerned about the world, since the world’s mission is not fighting ignorance. Different rules apply to the world. On the SDMB, the scope of falsehoods is smaller. Here we have a falsehood that appears in a cited source, as opposed to a poster’s own prose. But as a general rule, my approach has been if I see one, and no one else has highlighted it, I do. The response to that is different depending on the subject. If someone accuses Ted Cruz of being an arsonist, and I correct that claim, I am accused of wanting to defend Ted Cruz. I am advised that, if I must correct such claims, I should take pains to point out my distaste for Cruz at the same time, so that no one believes my rebuttal of the arson claim arises from Cruz-love. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/38 "2016-04-15T02:09:37Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I think the law is to make all the transgender people leave North Carolina. That is also a strong possibility ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/39 "2016-04-15T02:14:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As for the women, I can see that there might be some concern about being in an enclosed place with no security visible, no security cameras (obviously) but with just you and someone who obviously has a male body. It’s not about someone seeing you pee or being in your private space. It’s you bing in a place where you feel unsafe. > > I honestly don’t know what the answer is. If the person with an obvious male body identifies as female, then the woman is a bigot for feeling unsafe. If the person with an obvious male body identifies as male, then the woman is well within her rights to be afraid. See? Easy! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/40 "2016-04-15T03:46:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, one vote from Czarcasm for not mentioning it? Nope. Just bringing up the fact that what you think is important enough to correct among all you see here is chosen by you and you alone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190.md?page=3)