# Transgender and public bathrooms **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190 "2016-04-14T16:27:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/81 "2016-04-16T05:00:13Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > In all my years I’m sure I’ve unwittingly seen a number of transwomen in women’s restrooms, but I’ve never seen any male-presenting person in one. Nor have I ever seen a female-presenting person in a women’s restroom doing anything obscene or “pervy”-looking. My first trip to SF I walked in on what I assume was a transwoman using the toilet in a public restroom. But the only reason I knew she was a transwoman was because she didn’t bother to close the bathroom stall door. Which is frankly inconsiderate regardless of equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/82 "2016-04-16T13:02:20Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > I am for transgender individuals being able to use the bathroom of their choice. > > However I think there has been an ongoing misunderstanding among my progressive homies regarding the specific nature of conservatives’ unfounded fear that perverts will exploit non-discrimination ordinances for their own nefarious ends. > > Conservatives are not saying that transgender people will commit sexual assault. They are saying that straight cis men will go try to use the women’s restroom so they can get their rocks off, and then claim to identify as a woman if they are caught. > > Just as dumb, but a different kind of dumb. These laws raise all sorts of conundrums for some conservatives. What if a conservative lawmaker goes into the back stall in the men’s room in the airport and the “man” on the other side of the glory hole actually has a vagina? The legislator might accidentally cheat on his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/83 "2016-04-16T15:42:25Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > Conservatives are not saying that transgender people will commit sexual assault. They are saying that straight cis men will go try to use the women’s restroom so they can get their rocks off, and then claim to identify as a woman if they are caught. Of course, if one is caught “getting their rocks off” in a public bathroom, saying “It’s OK, I identify as female” isn’t going to prevent them from being arrested and charged with a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/84 "2016-04-17T00:55:21Z")
The hubris and foolishness of liberals and progressives never ceases to amaze me. Like alleys, parking garages, and stairwells, public restrooms are prime places to commit crimes. Innocent people enter, often alone, unseen by other people, and are vulnerable to being attacked. Unlike the the above mentioned examples, we can’t place cameras inside restrooms. One way we protect women and children is to segregate them from men. Suppose a woman goes into a restroom and a man follows her inside. This would raise an alarm among people with common sense. Now all of you brilliant progressives want this to be dismissed as normal behavior because the man can simply say he identifies as a woman. Here in ultra liberal California, there are no doors on the restroom stalls in public parks for the reason that the restrooms were used to engage in criminal activity. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/85 "2016-04-17T01:19:04Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Now all of you brilliant progressives want this to be dismissed as normal behavior because the man can simply say he identifies as a woman. This is entirely incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/86 "2016-04-17T01:48:40Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > TNow all of you brilliant progressives want this to be dismissed as > normal behavior because the man can simply say he identifies as a woman. You got it confused. Now all the brilliant NC Republicans want this to be dismissed because the man can simply say he was born a woman. Unless police are willing to look down his pants to see if he really is trans–and if he really is, I see a lawsuit in the works–the NC legislature has made the “but I’m trans” defense available to any perv looking for it. Bearded dude in flannel? “I’m a trans man, you’re making me use this bathroom!” Are they really gonna check? ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/87 "2016-04-17T02:20:01Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > The hubris and foolishness of liberals and progressives never ceases to amaze me. > > Like alleys, parking garages, and stairwells, public restrooms are prime places > to commit crimes. Innocent people enter, often alone, unseen by other people, > and are vulnerable to being attacked. Unlike the the above mentioned examples, > we can’t place cameras inside restrooms. One way we protect women and > children is to segregate them from men. Suppose a woman goes into a restroom > and a man follows her inside. This would raise an alarm among people with > common sense. Now all of you brilliant progressives want this to be dismissed as > normal behavior because the man can simply say he identifies as a woman. > > Here in ultra liberal California, there are no doors on the restroom stalls in public parks for the reason that the restrooms were used to engage in criminal activity. I didn’t put him up to it, I swear. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/88 "2016-04-17T02:24:13Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > The hubris and foolishness of liberals and progressives never ceases to amaze me. > > Like alleys, parking garages, and stairwells, public restrooms are prime places > to commit crimes. Innocent people enter, often alone, unseen by other people, > and are vulnerable to being attacked. Unlike the the above mentioned examples, > we can’t place cameras inside restrooms. One way we protect women and > children is to segregate them from men. Suppose a woman goes into a restroom > and a man follows her inside. This would raise an alarm among people with > common sense. Now all of you brilliant progressives want this to be dismissed as > normal behavior because the man can simply say he identifies as a woman. > > Here in ultra liberal California, there are no doors on the restroom stalls in public parks for the reason that the restrooms were used to engage in criminal activity. Not only has this never happened in the ten years that anti-discrimination ordinances have been on the books in multiple states, even if it were going to happen in states that don’t have them it would have already happened. By your logic there should be countless cases of grown men preying on young boys in public restrooms, or even dudes dressing as women just to get into the ladies’ room. Actual perverts don’t need permission to break the law. However sexual and violent assault on transgender individuals is an actual problem, and they deserve protection from it. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/89 "2016-04-17T03:33:56Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > The hubris and foolishness of liberals and progressives never ceases to amaze me. > > Like alleys, parking garages, and stairwells, public restrooms are prime places > to commit crimes. Innocent people enter, often alone, unseen by other people, > and are vulnerable to being attacked. Unlike the the above mentioned examples, > we can’t place cameras inside restrooms. One way we protect women and > children is to segregate them from men. Suppose a woman goes into a restroom > and a man follows her inside. This would raise an alarm among people with > common sense. Now all of you brilliant progressives want this to be dismissed as > normal behavior because the man can simply say he identifies as a woman. > > Here in ultra liberal California, there are no doors on the restroom stalls in public parks for the reason that the restrooms were used to engage in criminal activity. And transgender men who look like lumberjacks being required to pee in the womens’ rest room fixes this exactly how? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/90 "2016-04-17T05:03:37Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > The hubris and foolishness of liberals and progressives never ceases to amaze me. > > Like alleys, parking garages, and stairwells, public restrooms are prime places > to commit crimes. Innocent people enter, often alone, unseen by other people, > and are vulnerable to being attacked. Unlike the the above mentioned examples, > we can’t place cameras inside restrooms. One way we protect women and > children is to segregate them from men. Suppose a woman goes into a restroom > and a man follows her inside. This would raise an alarm among people with > common sense. Now all of you brilliant progressives want this to be dismissed as > normal behavior because the man can simply say he identifies as a woman. > > Here in ultra liberal California, there are no doors on the restroom stalls in public parks for the reason that the restrooms were used to engage in criminal activity. Clearly the only solution to bad people with penises would be good people with penises. Allowing men into women’s rest rooms would make them safer. Maybe everyone’s needs can be met if we a sign a genital inspector at every rest room. Then perverts could just get a job rather than perv inside bathrooms and everyone can feel safe in the bathroom knowing the person in the next stall has the correct equipment. If the concern is truly men overpowering women and children shouldn’t in be a woman and children’s room and a men’s room? Why are boys being forced to be potential victims? The absurdity this bizarre war on genitals is mind boggling. The only clear logic of these laws are toake life more difficult for Transgender ed people with a side of difficulty for those that don’t confirm to gender stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/91 "2016-04-17T11:16:35Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > The hubris and foolishness of liberals and progressives never ceases to amaze me. > > Like alleys, parking garages, and stairwells, public restrooms are prime places > to commit crimes. Innocent people enter, often alone, unseen by other people, > and are vulnerable to being attacked. Unlike the the above mentioned examples, > we can’t place cameras inside restrooms. One way we protect women and > children is to segregate them from men. Suppose a woman goes into a restroom > and a man follows her inside. This would raise an alarm among people with > common sense. Now all of you brilliant progressives want this to be dismissed as > normal behavior because the man can simply say he identifies as a woman. > > Here in ultra liberal California, there are no doors on the restroom stalls in public parks for the reason that the restrooms were used to engage in criminal activity. Let’s say that your wish is granted and all across America bathrooms have been segregated by birth gender. For a while transgender persons are going to be living in hell as every time they enter the bathroom of their birth gender they are going to be questioned and perhaps detained as their appearance doesn’t match their birth gender. After a while, because of the transpersons using the washrooms of their birth gender, people are going to start to get used to seeing people in the washrooms whose appearance is opposite of the usual expectations for that washroom. People will stop questioning people in the woman’s washroom who appear to be men. At this point male gender identifying persons can enter the woman’s washroom with whatever nefarious intent they may have. ISTM that your policies will result in hardship and suffering in the short term and in the long term result in the very situation you currently fear. Can you explain why we should enact a policy that will end with those results? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/92 "2016-04-17T11:28:59Z")
When I was 11, a grown man tried to entice me to go with him in a public street full of people. Should we ban public streets full of people? My grandfather abused two of his grandsons for years, when he took them to sports events. Should we ban sports? Half a dozen of the kids in my class were sexually assaulted by a teacher in the school, after school hours. Should we ban schools? Evidently not. But some people are so busy clutching their pearls\* over offenses that haven’t even happened that I don’t even want to know what kind of bans they’d come up with if they ever realize that actual bad things are happening in actual streets, sports venues and schools! - Or maybe those other balls. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/93 "2016-04-17T15:49:47Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Here in ultra liberal California, there are no doors on the restroom stalls in public parks for the reason that the restrooms were used to engage in criminal activity. Just because it’s the one part of your post that hadn’t been demolished yet: That’s to prevent drug use and prostitution, not sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/94 "2016-04-17T16:00:20Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > Not only has this never happened in the ten years that anti-discrimination ordinances have been on the books in multiple states, even if it were going to happen in states that don’t have them it would have already happened. By your logic there should be countless cases of grown men preying on young boys in public restrooms, or even dudes dressing as women just to get into the ladies’ room. Actual perverts don’t need permission to break the law. > > However sexual and violent assault on transgender individuals is an actual problem, and they deserve protection from it. Here’s the story of an assault by a man in a public restroom and what law enforcement advises. [http://www.cityoftaylor.com/content/man-charged-sexual-assault-store-police-urge-caution-when-using-public-restrooms](http://www.cityoftaylor.com/content/man-charged-sexual-assault-store-police-urge-caution-when-using-public-restrooms) Taylor police said you should always use caution when using a public restroom. Upon entering, quickly ascertain if anyone else is in the bathroom – and if anything seems suspicious, leave immediately. Police said the woman in this case was able to fight her attacker, but if a child as to enter a bathroom alone where someone is waiting, the child would not be as fortunate. Police said you should always accompany your children to the restroom, even if it means getting a baby out of a high chair at the restaurant and taking him or her to the bathroom with you. Convenience never trumps the safety of your kids, police said. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/95 "2016-04-17T16:06:42Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Here’s the story of an assault by a man in a public restroom and what law enforcement advises. …right. A dude entered a women’s restroom. **Not especially a problem**. A dude peeked over the top of the stall. **A big problem no matter whether it’s a women’s restroom or a men’s restroom**. The dude attacked the woman physically. **A big problem no matter whether he’s attacking a man or a woman**. The point isn’t that we live in a world free of sexual assault, or even that sexual assaults never happen in restrooms. The point is that a law forbidding a transgender woman from using a woman’s restroom is not going to make the dude in your story say, “Cripes, I was GONNA get nekkid and peek over the stall at a peeing lady and then attack her, but I guess I’m not gonna do that now! Guess I’m off to play cribbage with Gran!” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/96 "2016-04-17T16:08:47Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Here’s the story of an assault by a man in a public restroom and what law enforcement advises. > > [http://www.cityoftaylor.com/content/man-charged-sexual-assault-store-police-urge-caution-when-using-public-restrooms](http://www.cityoftaylor.com/content/man-charged-sexual-assault-store-police-urge-caution-when-using-public-restrooms) > > Taylor police said you should always use caution when using a public restroom. Upon entering, quickly ascertain if anyone else is in the bathroom – and if anything seems suspicious, leave immediately. > > Police said the woman in this case was able to fight her attacker, but if a child as to enter a bathroom alone where someone is waiting, the child would not be as fortunate. > > Police said you should always accompany your children to the restroom, even if it means getting a baby out of a high chair at the restaurant and taking him or her to the bathroom with you. Convenience never trumps the safety of your kids, police said. What the _fuck_ does this have to do with transgenders, or even men dressing up as women to go into their bathrooms to perv? What this idiot did was _already_ illegal! ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/97 "2016-04-17T16:16:26Z")
OR… And I know this idea is so radical it’s almost too insane to contemplate… Men dress like men, women dress like women, and we both use our assigned bathrooms. I don’t recall this being an especially difficult concept until people suddenly decided to complicate it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/98 "2016-04-17T16:17:44Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > OR… And I know this idea is so radical it’s almost too insane to contemplate… Men dress like men, women dress like women, and we both use our assigned bathrooms. Which is what the NC law _prevents_ from happening by forcing some women to use the men’s room and some men to use the women’s room. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/99 "2016-04-17T16:23:18Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > OR… And I know this idea is so radical it’s almost too insane to contemplate… Men dress like men, women dress like women, and we both use our assigned bathrooms. I don’t recall this being an especially difficult concept until people suddenly decided to complicate it. I’m not really sure what “dress like men” or “dress like women” means, but I have an even more radical idea: people mind their own goddamned business in the bathroom and not worry about what I’m doing, and in turn I don’t worry about what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190/100 "2016-04-17T16:26:04Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > OR… And I know this idea is so radical it’s almost too insane to contemplate… Men dress like men, women dress like women, and we both use our assigned bathrooms. I don’t recall this being an especially difficult concept until people suddenly decided to complicate it. Define “Man”. Define “Woman”. What bathroom should [this person](http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2186303.1429118850!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/menshealth16n-5-web.jpg) use? What bathroom should [this person](http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/styles/tout_image_612x380/public/i/2015/06/17/audry.jpg?itok=GfdQdBl_) use? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-and-public-bathrooms/752190.md?page=6)