Back to the issue of transgenders. The argument posed was that it is about safety. And that’s fine. But suppose transgender people were even less safe using bathrooms appropriate to their gender rather than their biology? Suppose they are attacked repeatedly? What then? Should they be forced back into the old restrooms for their own safety? Or into separate bathrooms only for them, as some have proposed? Saying it’s about safety actually isn’t adequate.
Wait - don’t you think it’s wrong for someone to insist that a person of the opposite sex - not just gender, but sex - not use the appropriate bathroom? Didn’t you say you’d lecture your daughter for that kind of “minor bigotry?”
I’ll “quibble” about things with my family that I wouldn’t with internet strangers – I hold them to a different standard. Not that the post in question was about bathrooms.
Care to respond to my post #235?
Why suppose this if it’s not true? Safety is about real attacks and real dangers, and it’s entirely reasonable to base such decisions on preventing these things. If the danger were different, then the response might be different.
Further, safety is not the only issue – it’s also about the dignity of people to be allowed to go to the bathroom that fits their gender (assuming the society uses gendered bathrooms).
So basically you don’t care. Yet you would teach your own daughter that it’s wrong?
Yes, IF. So it would be okay to force transgender people out of bathrooms they want to use if it’s for their own safety?
Ah, so it actually isn’t just about safety.
But I’m trying to understand your standard. Why would you consider it wrong for your daughter to want to not share a bathroom with a stranger of the opposite sex and gender? (Not even talking about transgender people).
This is not what I said at all.
I wouldn’t, necessarily, but it would be wrong (at least, after she is educated on the topic) for her to assume that just because someone looks different from the other people in the restroom that they don’t belong in the restroom.
The issue is about what transgender people have asked for/demanded - they have demanded access to gender-appropriate bathrooms, for their own safety and dignity (and because they have to pee sometimes). If they demanded something different for some other reasons, I would consider what they said on its merits.
My position on this issue is directly related to what transgender people have asked for and demanded. It’s not “I know best for them”… it’s “they know best for them and I should listen”.
Not just about safety, no, but that’s probably the biggest concern.
Then I was confused.
I’ll ask again - if your daughter complained that there was a man, who you and she both knew was a biological male, not a transgender man - in the bathroom with her, what would you tell her? Throw in a locker room for good measure.
What if they demand to use either restroom, depending on what they prefer?
Assuming you mean “biological and cisgender male”, didn’t I answer this already? I would say “we should go to the authorities/proprietors and tell them that there is a man in the ladies’ room”. When gendered bathrooms are in use, it’s inappropriate for men to use the ladies room and vice versa.
I would have to hear the reasoning from an actual transgender person to make such a judgment. “What we prefer” doesn’t sound like a good reason (and is not actually equal/equivalent to what cisgender people have) – “access to gender appropriate bathrooms” for safety, dignity, and 'cause they have to pee, is a good reason, and is equal/equivalent to what cisgender people have.
But I would certainly be willing to listen.
(emphasis mine)And how do you and she both know this?
Yes, you answered it, but you didn’t really.
What if your daughter said “I didn’t ask you to go to the authorities, I just don’t want to use a restroom with a man, period.”?
Do you think it is okay for your daughter to feel that way, or not? That’s the question. And by extension, is it wrong for anyone to want to not share a bathroom or locker room with a member of the opposite sex?
Because I said so.
That’s not the point. The point is that this question isn’t about transgender people.
Of course, if you can’t ever know who is who, either gender or sex, that simply proves my point that there’s no point in pretending that we have gender-segregated restrooms at all.
How do you and your daughter know it is a biological male and not a transgender?
Really? A transgender person has to make an argument good enough for you before they can gain access to a restroom corresponding with their gender? It’s not a right?
“Because I said so” is definitely not good enough, and when you quit putting the word “transgender” into your own posts you can say this isn’t about transgender people. I’m sorry, but “I knows 'em when I sees 'em” is about as backwards thinking as you can get, so please explain to us how this little girl can tell the difference between a transgender and a biological male, or admit that you can’t tell the difference and are just assuming.