# Transgender topics
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758
**Category:** About This Message Board
**Created:** [November 30, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758 "2020-11-30T03:10:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/1 "2020-11-30T03:10:57Z")
The topic [Did We Treat Transgenderism Better in the Past?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-treat-transgenderism-better-in-the-past/926612/99), was recently locked by @What_Exit because it went too off the rails according to him. I agree with his Topic Ban of YWTF as she has a history of bogging down these topics, but it just seems like the solution now is to have NO discussion of transgender issues and topics. Am I to expect this to be the norm in the future? That it’s a topic too divisive to even continue to allow on this board?
It’s possible to stop transphobes from derailing it without also silencing those of us who want to discuss topics that are personal to us.
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### Author:  [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/2 "2020-11-30T03:28:32Z")
I just want to say, if it’s not too much of a tangent, I am sorry for the vast mountain of bullshit transgender people have to wade through on this board. I hope we do find a way to respectfully navigate this issue.
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### Author:  [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/3 "2020-11-30T04:02:25Z")
I think it’s something we will be able to discuss here. We have had a couple of threads go very off track recently, but it’s not a forbidden topic.
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### Author:  [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/4 "2020-11-30T05:11:18Z")
That’s why I’m asking the mods to focus on the posters that cause it to go off track. It tends to be the same few posters every time. No need to close a topic because of it.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/5 "2020-11-30T05:49:21Z")
They seem to have made an effort in that direction. One specific poster has been directed not to post in any threads with a topic about transgenderism.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/6 "2020-11-30T07:48:12Z")
I don’t think that ruling means _no_ transgender discussions. In fact, I’d say it’s looking up for having better discussions.
I do know I’m going to avoid any new ones that **DemonTree** starts, though. They’re now 0 for 2 on starting transgender threads that somehow end in dumpster fires.
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### Author:  [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/7 "2020-11-30T08:00:57Z")
That certainly isn’t the message I’m getting. As other posters have pointed out, a number of trans posters have left this board due to the animosity against us and the inaction of moderators to deal with the posters responsible. In this case it seems like it’s trying to stop a problem before it starts and I would like to know @What_Exit’s justification for closing the thread instead of just dealing with the bad actors.
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### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/8 "2020-11-30T08:01:30Z")
I didn’t start the latest one. I’ve only started one thread on it and wasn’t planning to revive the topic.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/9 "2020-11-30T08:45:51Z")
You’re right, my apologies, I’m mixing up the closed one and your still-open-for-now “harmful scientific theories” one that also touched on trans issues in passing for some posts. My bad.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/10 "2020-11-30T08:48:00Z")
**WE** closed the thread _and_ dealt with a bad actor. That’s more than was done before.
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### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/11 "2020-11-30T08:50:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> You’re right, my apologies, I’m mixing up the closed one and your still-open-for-now “harmful scientific theories” one that also touched on trans issues in passing for some posts. My bad.
Thank you. If the subject was brought up in that other thread I’m pretty sure it wasn’t by me.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/12 "2020-11-30T11:45:03Z")
That is absolutely not what I intended with my post. Only **YWTF** was banned from the topic.
And I hope a clear message went out that when the next Transgender topic does start it is expected to stay on the topic of the OP.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/13 "2020-11-30T11:48:51Z")
As I posted, that thread was off the rails. Just **modnoting** it and removing one of the hijacking posters from it was not going to put it back on topic.
[In the GD rules for almost a year now is this](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rules-for-great-debates-and-elections-january-2020/845726):
> [@New Rules for Great Debates and Elections – January 2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rules-for-great-debates-and-elections-january-2020/845726/1):
>
> **Hijacks.** This is, perhaps, the single largest and most important change to the rules in Great Debates and Politics and Elections made in 2020. Staying on topic is a strong goal of Great Debates and Politics and Elections moving forward. Threads exist for a reason. Presumably, the original poster wants to discuss a specific topic. Posts which pull the thread away from that topic are hijacks. Some of these are inadvertent, some are not. Posts that seem intended to steer a discussion away from the original topic may be sanctioned. Hijacks may be, but are not limited to, posts that lead away from a topic, endless questioning, repeatedly asking the same or similar questions once they’ve been answered, and other maneuvers. Whether or not such is occurring is at the sole discretion of the moderation staff and may lead to official sanction.
So better to close a trainwreck in this case.
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### Author:  [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/14 "2020-11-30T14:07:26Z")
And as I said, it’s not a forbidden topic.
That one was deep into the weeds and many of the posts were from a poster that now has a topic ban, and wouldn’t be able to respond to any responses to her.
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/15 "2020-11-30T15:07:35Z")
The topic ban strikes me as an ill considered, or perhaps ill advised decision. Regardless of where you stand on the subject, @YWTF specifically, but other posters that hold a similar P.O.V. have consistently brought cites to the discussion. In contrast, those who disagreed brought mostly anecdotes. Nothing that I’ve read on the subject by the topic banned poster has struck me as hateful or bigoted. All of it was worthy of consideration and thoughtful discussion. Yes, even if sometimes heated.
If the objective on this board remains about having an open and informed conversation, banning posters who share possibly controversial insight that is more than simply anecdotal, is probably not the most effective way to go about fighting ignorance.
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### Author:  [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/16 "2020-11-30T16:00:10Z")
This is a surprise to no one, but I am strong disagreement with the topic ban on @YWTF, especially given this board’s long tolerance of Dopers who are truly derpy, provocative, and unequivocally offensive. Nothing she said in that thread was incorrect, and it was all completely appropriate for Great Debates. If the mods felt like she was derailing the topic, they could have just told her stop derailing and get back on topic. This is how other thread derailings are handled. So this decision is 100% bullshit, in my opinion.
I mean, I could see if @YWTF has been out here spamming the board with one-note-johnny transgender threads, but she hasn’t. She’s only guilty of being skeptical of certain aspects of woke conventional wisdom regarding gender identity. Skepticism is supposed to be a hallmark of rational thought. @YWTF brought sources to back up all of her claims, which most folks in that thread didn’t feel compelled to do. But we’re supposed to believe she’s the poor debater? Bullshit! GD used to be the best forum on the SDMB. It used to be where a person could go to be exposed to all sides of a controversial topic. But it’s turning into another social media echo chamber–a place where dissenting voices aren’t allowed, even when they are respectful and well-sourced.
I am seriously contemplating whether I want to keep posting here.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/17 "2020-11-30T16:08:36Z")
Ok, I’ll overcommunicate: TLDR if you like
Did you know in the last few months she made over a 1000 posts on this subject. That is a crazy high percentage of her total posts in that time also.
She needs a break. We did tell her to come back to us in a few weeks and appeal the decision. She has to learn how not to hijack threads on Transgenderism.
We didn’t decide this lightly. We spent too much of Sunday reviewing that thread and besides it being hopelessly off-topic, we found her to be the main cause and for a 4th time on the subject in a short period of time.
She is an excellent poster otherwise.
**11 posts in thread, not sure if any were actually on topic.**
> [@Did We Treat Transgenderism Better in the Past?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-treat-transgenderism-better-in-the-past/926612):
>
> Speaking of course as Generation X’er (i.e., someone who grew up in the 1970’s and 80’s). Here is what I remember: -They were called ‘transexuals’. Transgender is probably more accurate. But transexual emphasized that it was purely biological. Their very sex needed to be changed. Get it? -It was a perfectly acceptable medical condition. It was not the person’s fault. I am not denying that we say that now. But I think this was more so the case in the past. The psychological component was not e…
**33 in this thread, many or maybe most off topic.**
> [@So-Called “Cancel Culture”, Social Media and Bullying](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676):
>
> I’m not a huge believer in the so-called “Cancel Culture” thing but I periodically see the Twitterverse explode on someone. I have heard of Doxxing and seen reports of groups of demonstrators going to homes of political leaders or interrupting their private gathering at restaurants. First amendment issues aside, do these behaviors meet a reasonable definition of “bullying?” To me, it seems like they do. Am I missing something?
Somehow in this thread too she turned it to Transgender debating.
> [@The Ongoing Death of Free Speech: Prominent ACLU Lawyer Cheers Suppression of a New Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-death-of-free-speech-prominent-aclu-lawyer-cheers-suppression-of-a-new-book/925913/105):
>
> The book is selling well largely because efforts taken to attack it have simultaneously given it free publicity. The post above has done exactly that. Seeing this phenomenon play out over and over again in my Twitter feed is crazy. But what is crazier is that I have yet to see a compelling explanation for how the book is actually transphobic, false, or biased (and this doesn’t surprise me at all). The absence of a fact-based refutation only makes its more likely people will buy the book so the…
**1059 posts in this thread,** where it was more on topic but this looks like obsession.
> [@J K Rowling and the trans furore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/1763):
>
> Yes, of course that’s what I’m saying. The more you come back to saying this, the more it looks like a canard to make what I’m proposing look crazy and infeasible, when really its the most practical and fair option for everyone. If we both agree that transmen aren’t itching to be in the women’s room, then by extension, we’re talking about very few instances in which women would encounter a person who is female but presents as a man. Thus, if it’s only going to be a rare event, the normalizat…
_We have other Topic bans, this is not new. It doesn’t have to be permanent. Probably shouldn’t be._
I’m not sure what else I can say on this.
And of course she is more than welcome to post on any other subject. I’ve always thought she was an excellent poster, after not recognizing her new name. I honestly didn’t understand why this subject would draw someone in to be like an Astro-turfer, but was informed by my fellow mods, who she was and she just feels very passionate about the subject.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/18 "2020-11-30T16:10:16Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#):
>
> I just want to say, if it’s not too much of a tangent, I am sorry for the vast mountain of bullshit transgender people have to wade through on this board. I hope we do find a way to respectfully navigate this issue.
This^^. It’s exhausting just to read the same ludicrous anti-trans material over and over again even when one _isn’t_ trans; when it’s actually personal, it must be soul-scarring.
> [@monstro](#):
>
> This is a surprise to no one, but I am strong disagreement with the topic ban on @YWTF, especially given this board’s long tolerance of Dopers who are truly derpy, provocative, and unequivocally offensive. Nothing she said in that thread was incorrect, and it was all completely appropriate for Great Debates. If the mods felt like she was derailing the topic, they could have just told her stop derailing and get back on topic. This is how other thread derailings are handled. So this decision is 100% bullshit, in my opinion.
As a counterpoint, YWTF’s posts have on occasion driven me to stop reading those threads, particularly where the line of discussion has strayed into “transwomen aren’t women” territory. I will concede that she doesn’t present many of the more toxic anti-trans positions we have seen on this board (some by now-banned posters, some by current posters) and has made many cogent points, but many of her posts have also gone well beyond “scepticism” and into strong personal emotive - and sometimes incredibly hurtful - language. And she has often derailed those threads to her own purposes.
So it’s all very well to talk about “dissenting voices”. But sometimes the reason those voices are dissenting is because they are unkind and even bullying. And the mods are left with the unpleasant choice of either moderating those voices - and being accused of promoting an “echo chamber” - or not doing so, and watching the targets of those voices being driven off instead.
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### Author:  [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/19 "2020-11-30T16:30:59Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> And of course she is more than welcome to post on any other subject. I’ve always thought she was an excellent poster, after not recognizing her new name. I honestly didn’t understand why this subject would draw someone in to be like an Astro-turfer, but was informed by my fellow mods, who she was and she just feels very passionate about the subject.
The previous long running thread was a definite factor in our decision. Many of the same points and posts were being rehashed in the new thread. We do not want an echo chamber, but we also don’t want to have the same points over and over again.
It’s not being added as a thrice told tale, it’s not a forbidden topic.
But she and you, monstro, are both great posters and I hope you’ll stay.
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### Author:  [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758/20 "2020-11-30T16:31:51Z")
> As a counterpoint, YWTF’s posts have on occasion driven me to stop reading those threads, particularly where the line of discussion has strayed into “transwomen aren’t women” territory.
But this is a _you_ problem, not a @YWTF problem. There are plenty of Dopers who disagree very much with @YWTF, but who still manage to engage her posts.
“Woman” is a sociopolitical label, which means it should be fair game for debate and discussion. If you think transwomen are women, that’s fine. But it is not axiomatic. It is not a scientific belief. It is something people can disagree with while still being supportive of trans rights. Progressives like myself have always been in a support of trans rights (protection in education, employment, health, housing, safety, etc.). But it’s only recently where “transwomen are women” has become the mantra we’re all expected to reflexively chant. This is super off-putting to me. When people seem to care more about a slogan than the logical implications of a slogan, I have a hard time listening to what they have to say. But I still try to listen.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-topics/926758.md?page=2)