# Transgender - transracial. What is the essential difference? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 3, 2021, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117 "2021-02-03T10:45:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/221 "2021-02-08T15:26:45Z")
I don’t (I’m exagerating for effect), but the general sense of this thread and the SDMB in general is so. If Terry Crews says “I won’t change anything in my life but from now on I am a woman” he is a woman instantly. I’m told we have to accept what people say about themselves without questioning or even mildly wondering. If Terry Crews says “I’m white”, sorry, TC, biology says you’re not, look at your skin color and your body features. Denying his whiteness becasuse I don’t see him as white is exactly the same as denying her womanness because I don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/222 "2021-02-08T15:38:26Z")
In my understanding, gender identity in society is much more about how one sees their self, and race in society is much more about how others see and treat you (and how others have seen and treated you _for your whole life_, not just in the present). Dolezal wasn’t black because she didn’t grow up black and wasn’t treated as black for the majority of her life (and especially her upbringing and childhood). According to DNA analysis, my ancestry is about 3-4% sub-Saharan African, but I am not black in any sense because no one ever saw and treated me as black. And even if I wanted to “claim” blackness somehow, this blood ancestry wouldn’t legitimize it in any way. I’ve been treated as white my whole life – that means I’m white. My blood has pretty much nothing to do with it. But gender identity has little, if anything, to do with how others see and treat you. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/223 "2021-02-08T15:48:31Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I don’t (I’m exagerating for effect) Maybe save that for a different discussion. Here, I’m kind of expecting the opinions you post to be your own damn opinions. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > the general sense of this thread and the SDMB in general is so. I don’t agree > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > If Terry Crews says “I won’t change anything in my life but from now on I am a woman” he is a woman instantly. I’m told we have to accept what people say about themselves without questioning or even mildly wondering. You can do all the mild wondering you want. What you seem to want is to do that openly without being thought of negatively by anyone. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > If Terry Crews says “I’m white”, sorry, TC, biology says you’re not, look at your skin color and your body features. …and you previous statements about being Black, and your family history, and your accent, and all the other cultural trappings of being African-American. Like, believe me, it wouldn’t be believable if he came out and said he was a Zulu, either, even though he has all the phenotype markers for it. Also, just as an aside, it’s a bit ironic to choose Crews for this, because he gets the “not Black enough” shit thrown at him often enough. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/224 "2021-02-08T15:58:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But gender identity has little, if anything, to do with how others see and treat you. It does, but shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/225 "2021-02-08T16:08:32Z")
My great-grandfather lived transracially. I grew up thinking he was Native like my great-grandmother. My niece joined [Ancestry.com](http://Ancestry.com) to do a genealogy assignment with her kids and we\* found out he was actually listed as mulatto in the Virginia census, then later as Black and then after he hit Canada and married my GGM he was listed as Native American (my Tribe used to travel between Canada and Minnesota/Wisconsin/Michigan). I guess being NA was better than being Black back then (born 1858). Which reminds me of all the people who claim to have NA blood but only as far as “grandma said her mom was Cherokee”. And that reminds me it’s a Western idea that there are only 2 genders. [Two-spirit - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit) (skip down to “Traditional Indigenous terms”.) \*I had a small family tree from when my kids did that assignment that she used to build the bigger one. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/226 "2021-02-08T16:11:36Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > But gender identity has little, if anything, to do with how others see and treat you. > > It does, but shouldn’t. In the sense that people should treat someone as their gender identity, regardless of what society/culture says about how they appear – yes. But I think that’s more about courtesy and decency than gender identity – we should treat people how they ask to be treated. Regardless of how someone is treated and seen, if their gender identity is “woman” then they are a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/227 "2021-02-08T16:18:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > > > But gender identity has little, if anything, to do with how others see and treat you. > > > > It does, but shouldn’t. > > In the sense that people should treat someone as their gender identity, regardless of what society/culture says about how they appear – yes. But I think that’s more about courtesy and decency than gender identity – we should treat people how they ask to be treated. Regardless of how someone is treated and seen, if their gender identity is “woman” then they are a woman.   Agreed, but not quite the point I was (too subtly) making. Because of the bigotry against trans people, many trans people have difficulty understanding their own identity. That is, the society a trans person lives in affects their identity. It shouldn’t, but it does. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/228 "2021-02-08T16:34:57Z")
Okay, I understand what you’re saying, and agree. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/229 "2021-02-08T17:06:22Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > My great-grandfather lived transracially. Do you mean your great-grandfather himself _believed_ he was _actually_ Native American? Because if not, all he was doing was being adopted into a culture. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/230 "2021-02-08T17:48:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Dolezal wasn’t black because she didn’t grow up black and wasn’t treated as black for the majority of her life (and especially her upbringing and childhood). That is the exact same argument Germaine Greer uses to say trans women aren’t women. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/231 "2021-02-08T18:04:45Z")
Thus demonstrating how these issues are different. Gender identity is about how one sees one’s self. Race is not. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/232 "2021-02-08T18:15:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Dolezal wasn’t black because she didn’t grow up black and wasn’t treated as black for the majority of her life (and especially her upbringing and childhood). Yet the One Drop Rule gives us this: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/05/21/louisiana-court-sees-no-shades-of-gray-in-womans-request/ddb0f1df-ba5d-4141-9aa0-6347e60ce52d/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/05/21/louisiana-court-sees-no-shades-of-gray-in-womans-request/ddb0f1df-ba5d-4141-9aa0-6347e60ce52d/) ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/233 "2021-02-08T18:21:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Thus demonstrating how these issues are different. Gender identity is about how one sees one’s self. Race is not. You haven’t demonstrated anything. Obviously, Germaine Greer does not think gender identity is what makes someone a man or a woman. Why should she? If it’s not acceptable for someone who grew up white to take a scholarship or position intended for someone who grew up black (and was discriminated against on that basis), then why should someone who didn’t grow up female and wasn’t treated like a woman for most of their life be eligible for scholarships and positions intended for people who grew up female (and _were_ discriminated against for that reason)? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/234 "2021-02-08T18:49:21Z")
The one drop rule is fantastically stupid, and always has been. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/235 "2021-02-08T18:52:45Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > If it’s not acceptable for someone who grew up white to take a scholarship or position intended for someone who grew up black (and was discriminated against on that basis), then why should someone who didn’t grow up female and wasn’t treated like a woman for most of their life be eligible for scholarships and positions intended for people who grew up female (and _were_ discriminated against for that reason)? If this scholarship was intended for cis women, then it should go to a cis woman. If the scholarship was intended for a woman, then it should go to a woman (cis or trans). If the scholarship was intended for a trans woman, then it should go to a trans woman. There are plenty of challenges and forms of discrimination that cis women face that may not be faced by others, including trans women, and I have no problem if there’s an organization that seeks to recognize these challenges and assist those who have faced and are facing them. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/236 "2021-02-08T19:00:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The one drop rule is fantastically stupid, and always has been. As genetic testing becomes more available and less expensive we might soon find out that by strict application of the One Drop Rule that there are very few “white” people in the United States. Of course, the rule is stupid. But I speculate that it is still followed by a large number of people in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/237 "2021-02-08T19:05:27Z")
> [@Ynnad](#): > > Of course, the rule is stupid. But I speculate that it is still followed by a large number of people in the United States. Perhaps, but very rarely will anyone know the genetic blood ancestry of others who aren’t very close relatives. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/238 "2021-02-08T19:10:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I have no problem if there’s an organization that seeks to recognize these challenges and assist those who have faced and are facing them. But you also have no problem with other people making this illegal? Isn’t that what your president just did? ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/239 "2021-02-08T19:10:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Perhaps, but very rarely will anyone know the genetic blood ancestry of others who aren’t very close relatives. But government recordkeepers in various functions often assign a racial classification to individuals and have done so throughout the history of the United States. More often than not, these are open records available for anyone to review. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/240 "2021-02-08T19:13:55Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Isn’t that what your president just did? Not that I’m aware of. In my understanding it’s entirely legal to create a scholarship just for women, just for trans women, just for cis women, just for black people, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117.md?page=13)