# Transgender - transracial. What is the essential difference? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 3, 2021, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117 "2021-02-03T10:45:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/301 "2021-02-09T12:15:05Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > This doesn’t match any of my trans friends. I guess that explains why you can’t answer then. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/302 "2021-02-09T12:16:32Z")
Exactly. Any legitimate “feeling” of blackness, or whatever, relates to one’s own personal experience of being treated by others as black (or otherwise). I feel “white” because I’ve always been treated as white. If someone feels “black” without this personal experience, history, heritage, upbringing, etc., then they’re either delusional or making it up. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/303 "2021-02-09T12:17:56Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > But the same can also be said of gender, what does it mean to _feel_ like a man or a woman? Do I feel like a man? I honestly don’t know. Then you may not have a strong gender identity. If so, that’s absolutely fine, and nothing wrong with it. But some of us do have a strong feeling of gender identity. I certainly do – I feel very much, and very strongly, a man. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/304 "2021-02-09T12:18:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because I don’t trust a white person who would do this. I think the bar to clear to assume anything other than bad faith (for a white person who tried this) is monumentally high. White people don’t, and shouldn’t, get to claim that they/we are not white. We’re white. That comes with a lot of privileges, and also responsibility – the responsibility to try and dismantle whiteness (the system, not the race). Pretending we’re not white is pretty much the opposite of this. Pretending we’re not white is a slap in the face to those who have actually suffered from racism and discrimination. “pretend”? Who said anything about pretending? Were we not just accepting that some people could genuinely have such feelings? Are transgender people merely pretending? if not, wherein lies the difference? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/305 "2021-02-09T12:18:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because I don’t trust a white person who would do this. I think the bar to clear to assume anything other than bad faith (for a white person who tried this) is monumentally high. White people don’t, and shouldn’t, get to claim that they/we are not white. We’re white. That comes with a lot of privileges, and also responsibility – the responsibility to try and dismantle whiteness (the system, not the race). Pretending we’re not white is pretty much the opposite of this. Pretending we’re not white is a slap in the face to those who have actually suffered from racism and discrimination. Replace black and white with woman and man and you sound exactly like a transphobe. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/306 "2021-02-09T12:19:44Z")
The difference is in the difference between gender and race. They’re not the same things. They have very different histories and roles in society. Apples and helicopters. Why on Earth would they be treated the same? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/307 "2021-02-09T12:20:38Z")
Yes, when you change the words in something, you change the meaning entirely. Replace various words with purple, bicycle, monkey, and helicopter, and you’d get a brand new paragraph. Welcome to the wonderful world of human language! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/308 "2021-02-09T12:26:36Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Well quite, I have lighter skin but do I feel “white”? Well no, I don’t even know what the concept would mean. I’m only slightly joking, but “I don’t know what being White feels like” is possibly the Whitest thing a person could say… > [@](#): > > But the same can also be said of gender, what does it mean to _feel_ like a man or a woman? Do I feel like a man? I honestly don’t know. I definitely _feel_ like a man, just like I _feel_ my sexual identity. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/309 "2021-02-09T12:35:55Z")
Here are just a few things being white feels like: -No significant feelings of fear or nervousness if law enforcement approaches. -Generally being trusted to be acting in good faith by authority figures and institutions. -Being assumed by others to know what you’re doing, and “belong” in the place you are, in most situations. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/310 "2021-02-09T12:35:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Cis women face real challenges, some of which may not be faced by trans women. Trans women, by living as women, forego many “male privileges”. Where they don’t necessarily give them up, such as in athletics, there is considerable debate about how to include them under the umbrella term “women” without harming opportunities for cis women. Trans blacks, formerly white people living as black, do not give up their white privileges. They do not change their upbringing, their ancestral history, other people’s perception of them. Their self identification as black does not involve any baggage, they have the privilege of choosing this change and taking only the positives with them. Trans women and trans men do not have the same luxury. I think this is part of the reason transrace (particularly transblack) is viewed more suspiciously than transgender. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/311 "2021-02-09T12:38:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Generally being trusted to be acting in good faith by authority figures and institutions. > -Being assumed by others to know what you’re doing, and “belong” in the place you are, in most situations. These are not feelings white people have, they’re feelings about white people. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/312 "2021-02-09T12:40:47Z")
Okay, add “having the feeling of…” to the beginning, then. ---
**Author:** ![TimothyNewsome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ba0ec/32.png) [@TimothyNewsome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimothyNewsome)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/313 "2021-02-09T12:41:01Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Neither race nor gender exist except as social constructs. Seeing as you are a white male hetrosexual, I don’t see why anyone should give any credence to your opinion on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/314 "2021-02-09T12:41:19Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Trans blacks, formerly white people living as black, do not give up their white privileges. They do not change their upbringing, their ancestral history, other people’s perception of them. Their self identification as black does not involve any baggage, they have the privilege of choosing this change and taking only the positives with them. > > Trans women and trans men do not have the same luxury. I think this is part of the reason transrace (particularly transblack) is viewed more suspiciously than transgender. Yes, this is a good way to put it. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/315 "2021-02-09T12:53:01Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/316 "2021-02-09T16:59:28Z")
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**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/317 "2021-02-09T17:48:20Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I guess that explains why you can’t answer then. Never mind. Yes, the real people I know don’t match the towering effigy of dessicated culms you’ve tried to construct. A brusque and hollow “Never mind” isn’t going to paper over that gap, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/318 "2021-02-09T19:10:32Z")
So my youngest has two friends who are trans women. And I’m not arguing that they are anything but women - that is how they choose to identify and I respect that. But both were raised with male privilege. And neither has not taken any steps to present as female - if you look at either of them you see a guy (one wears a beard). Except to a few friends, they both use their male name and dress as men - except in private. Their self identification as a woman does not involve any baggage, it does not involve any of the history of being a woman (who could not have a credit card in my own lifetime, who face pay inequity, and have a hard time getting taken seriously in many professions). It involves only choosing this change and taking the positives. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/319 "2021-02-09T19:16:24Z")
It’d be hard to judge from afar. Maybe they’re just pretending for some reason. Maybe they’re in the process of transitioning. Maybe they’re trans and comfortable in the way they present, and only plan to disclose their gender identity to those close to them (i.e. they don’t plan for the rest of the world to see or treat them as women). Maybe there’s some other explanation. Even if they’re faking it for some reason, as long as they’re not using any resources or anything else that other women could use, there wouldn’t be any broad negative effect. If they are planning on using it to get into bathrooms or locker rooms or whatever, hopefully they will be exposed as frauds. But who knows from several degrees separation? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117/320 "2021-02-09T20:59:43Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And neither has not taken any steps to present as female - if you look at either of them you see a guy (one wears a beard). Except to a few friends, they both use their male name and dress as men - except in private. That sounds to me like being mostly closeted instead of “out”. Of course there can be gender-nonconforming trans women, even bearded ones, but generally out transgender women publicly identify as women, whatever their choices about gender conformity. Similarly, there are still quite a lot of closeted gay people who identify as gay in their private social circle but keep that on the down low and pass for heterosexual in their public lives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgender-transracial-what-is-the-essential-difference/932117.md?page=17)