# Transgendered child returns to school a boy **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 4, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892 "2005-03-04T14:01:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/21 "2005-03-05T07:50:27Z")
oh, looks like nothing medical was done. Not sure if it’s ok, but it’s not nearly as bad as I was assuming. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/22 "2005-03-05T07:54:51Z")
These kinds of things are not done without counseling. Granted that we’re not talking about reassignment surgery, which requires even more evaluation and counseling, but this does not sound like the kind of thing a parent could force a child to do. I think the fear here is misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/23 "2005-03-05T08:04:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > These kinds of things are not done without counseling. Granted that we’re not talking about reassignment surgery, which requires even more evaluation and counseling, but this does not sound like the kind of thing a parent could force a child to do. I think the fear here is misplaced. Parents have done a good enough job convincing their kids that they are [physically] ill enough to fool doctors. It’s called Munchausen Syndrome, as I’m sure you know. It may be stretching to say that that’s what’s going on here, but I wouldn’t rule it out, either. Something about the story just doesn’t sit right with me. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/24 "2005-03-05T09:39:24Z")
Here’s the thing…if the child is happier, better behaved and seems better off as a boy, then everyone is doing the right thing by allowing him to be a boy. If not, then they’re not. Strange as it may seem to some people, the school will probably be able to tell very quickly if this is a child who is genuinely happier as a male or not. Kids aren’t actually that great at lying about their emotions, and if this is the wrong choice the child will act out in some way. Of course, if it’s the right choice, then they’ll STOP acting out. I think 9 years old is old enough to work out whether you feel like a boy or a girl, since it’s a pretty fundamental part of your being. It’s not really like deciding on your favourite colour, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/25 "2005-03-05T10:48:46Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Parents have done a good enough job convincing their kids that they are [physically] ill enough to fool doctors. It’s called Munchausen Syndrome, as I’m sure you know. I’m not convinced a parent could convince their child that she was the wrong gender to the point that it would fool a psychologist. Just a couple of weeks ago I spoke to an FTM transsexual who said he did know from a very early age that something was wrong. He didn’t like wearing girl clothes or doing ‘girly’ things, got counseling, and started down the road to reassignment pretty early. Knowing something is wrong at nine (which is withing two or three years of puberty for a girl) doesn’t sound implausible to me. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/26 "2005-03-05T11:21:29Z")
When I worked with children, a lot of the 9-year-old girls were developing breasts and starting their periods. Freaked me right out, since I was used to ‘puberty’ being a 12- or 13-year-old thing, but it’s starting earlier these days in a lot of cases. Anyhow, this story doesn’t give much of the bckground info. It says that the parents consulted with _medical professionals_ . We’ve heard from many of the TG folks here on SDMB, and I’ve heard from many IRL, that it is very common (I’d say universal, but I’d have to provide a cite) for TG individuals to feel suicidal in the years prior to making the transition to their true gender. For all we know, life has been a living hell for this family, with a suicidal child and despairing parents. They seek help for their child, and this is what they come up with. Having worked with suicidal and behaviorally challenged kids, many of whom end up in residential schools because insurance won’t cover inpatient stays and they can’t be kept safe at home, I can see where a parent might say, “Hey, live as a boy? Sure, we’ll give it a go, if it makes him happier.” Anyhow, I’ll keep an eye out for follow-ups. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/27 "2005-03-05T15:02:37Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Parents have done a good enough job convincing their kids that they are [physically] ill enough to fool doctors. It’s called Munchausen Syndrome, as I’m sure you know. Not quite, [Munchausen’s by Proxy](http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic830.htm) means that the caregiver invents a false history which clashes with the actual physical state of the child, or that the caregiver creates symptoms by administering poison, using dyes, causing bleeding, etc. It’s not a syndrome of convincing the child s/he’s ill (which would be inducing Munchausen’s in the child, not a case of Muchausen’s by Proxy). The child is not the one giving the history, the caregiver is. Most false-history MbP cases are in very young, pre-communicative children. Once they can communicate, for the MbP to continue, the caregiver has to switch to actually making the child ill. Is there any way to MAKE a child transgendered? So strongly that interviews with medical professionals won’t show it? I can tell you that my parents really, really wanted me to be a boy. I wasn’t allowed to wear dresses, play with “girl toys” or anything of the sort. Yet I was never convinced I was a boy. I was actually a very feminine girl. > [@lorene](#): > > We’ve heard from many of the TG folks here on SDMB, and I’ve heard from many IRL, that it is very common (I’d say universal, but I’d have to provide a cite) for TG individuals to feel suicidal in the years prior to making the transition to their true gender. > For all we know, life has been a living hell for this family, with a suicidal child and despairing parents. While I don’t know the family in question, my hope would be that by supporting this child in the process from an early age, we could avoid the suicidal bit altogether. That is, I don’t think we have enough information to say that transgenderism and suicidal ideation are inherently linked. Perhaps (and I think more likely) it’s the social pressure and confusion caused by having to live as a gender you’re not and the understandable fear of being ostracised, beaten or killed for living as who you are that causes suicidal feelings. After all, a lot of my older (over 30) gay friends report that they had similar suicidal feelings when they realized they were gay. My younger (under 30) gay friends report that they were confused and a little scared coming out. My youngest (under 25) gay friends say it was no big deal, that in fact they have known and have been accepted as gay by family and friends since puberty or before. The gayness hasn’t changed, but societal views and pressure sure has. [insert disclaimer that I’m not equating being gay to being transgendered, just offering up the gay issue as one facing similar social hostility in a historical context] ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/28 "2005-03-05T15:20:43Z")
I want to commend the district superintendent. He is taking one hell of a risk for this child. An elected school board hires and fires superintendents, and if his actions are really at odds with his community’s views, it his job. Good for him. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/29 "2005-03-05T15:22:09Z")
Is his name Pat? (sorry, but I immediately thought of the SNL character!) Lee? Tracey? Dylan? Anyhoo- I hope he has a “neuter” name. I read the article, but it wasn’t clear–if this kid had genetic testing and is in fact, male–kudos to the parents for allowing him to be. And kudos to the school, for being open and receptive. But the Jr. High locker room will be hell… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/30 "2005-03-05T16:23:04Z")
Plain “Munchausen’s Syndrome” is faking illness and injuries yourself. Munchausen by Proxy is making up illness for children, even going so far as to poison/injure your child. No way the parent “made” this child transgender. ---
**Author:** ![Iceland\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@Iceland\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iceland_Blue)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/31 "2005-03-05T22:18:45Z")
Just curious as to what will happen if the child gets to mid-to-late teens and decides that they made the decision too young and that they would really be much more comfortable in the body of a girl,living as a girl…will they be prepared to do another sex-change? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/32 "2005-03-06T00:31:14Z")
> [@Iceland\_Blue](#): > > Just curious as to what will happen if the child gets to mid-to-late teens and decides that they made the decision too young and that they would really be much more comfortable in the body of a girl,living as a girl…will they be prepared to do another sex-change? It’s very unlikely that will happen, as people go through years of extensive couseling before surgery is performed. I think there HAVE been people who changed their minds afterwards, some MAY have even “switched back.” But I suspect that’s pretty damn rare, out side _Geraldo_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/33 "2005-03-06T00:48:22Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Parents have done a good enough job convincing their kids that they are [physically] ill enough to fool doctors. It’s called Munchausen Syndrome, as I’m sure you know. > > It may be stretching to say that that’s what’s going on here, but I wouldn’t rule it out, either. Something about the story just doesn’t sit right with me. Well, consider that most TG kids receive considerable pressure from their parents to conform to their birth gender, and yet still remain convinced that they are really the opposite gender. It seems unlikely, therefore, that parents could convince a non-TG kid that they really are TG with any greater success. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/34 "2005-03-06T01:25:17Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > While I don’t know the family in question, my hope would be that by supporting this child in the process from an early age, we could avoid the suicidal bit altogether. That is, I don’t think we have enough information to say that transgenderism and suicidal ideation are inherently linked. Perhaps (and I think more likely) it’s the social pressure and confusion caused by having to live as a gender you’re not and the understandable fear of being ostracised, beaten or killed for living as who you are that causes suicidal feelings. Oh, I absolutely agree, and hope I didn’t give the impression that I believe TG=suicidal, de facto. However, I do believe that, as young as 9, kids are feeling social/gender role pressure. The kids I worked with were already talking about boyfriends, makeup, and “gays” at age 9. I sincerely hope that all of this is genuine in the best interests of the child in this story. If it doesn’t work out at his current school, perhaps he could switch to a different school at a later date and always be known as a boy there? ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/35 "2005-03-06T09:30:15Z")
It’s highly unlikely that they’ll do any of the SRS before the child is 18. They _might_ start hormones, but in this litigious world medical professionals would be very wary of doing that kind of procedure on someone who cannot give their own informed consent. The sad truth is that the earlier the hormones are taken the better the result would be, but most TG teens have to go through puberty in the wrong body, just to make sure that they know that it IS the wrong body. IIRC FtM surgery is a different ballgame to MtF, as many FtM would choose only “top” surgery, being unsatisfied with the current “bottom” options. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892/36 "2005-03-06T15:04:25Z")
> [@Iceland\_Blue](#): > > Just curious as to what will happen if the child gets to mid-to-late teens and decides that they made the decision too young and that they would really be much more comfortable in the body of a girl,living as a girl…will they be prepared to do another sex-change? The Standards of Care prohibit the administration of hormones until the patient is a legal adult. As such, no hormonal reassignment or surgical procedure will be provided by any responsible care provider until he reaches the age of 18. The only treatment that will be provided (aside from counseling) is an antiestrogenic medication (I can’t remember what it’s called, but there is one) to delay secondary sexual development. This is believed to be reversible, so if he does change his mind later on (which is extremely unlikely), no permanent damage will be done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transgendered-child-returns-to-school-a-boy/292892.md?page=1)