A non-consumer economy? Isn’t that one of those oxymorons? You know, like green industry, or Congressional ethics.
I admit, shortly after making the post, I realized that the title sounds kind of stupid. My point was about cutting back on over-spending and relying on credit, which the crappy economy is forcing people to do anyway.
But at any rate, while you need consumption in an economy, I was just wondering if it was possible to have an economy where consumption wasn’t the main focus.
Well, I guess would could build pyramids.
What do you imagine people doing in the economic sphere that isn’t related to consumption? Even if I give all my money to the poor, it’s so that they can consume things.
Oh they’ll tell you that we’re not competing against China for manufacturing.
They’ll say we’re moving toward a knowledge based economy. (And you know who you are, he who won’t come back near this subject now that I’ve called you on it…) Heheheh. But you already know why that’s bullshit.
Heheheheh.
Wrong. Absolutely wrong.
For the ten thousandth time, tariffs are doing wonders for China and their economic growth, which is definitely benefiting their workers.
Anyone who doesn’t factor in the rise in wages that go along with the rise in prices as a result of tariffs is not worth citing.
They’ll say it’s stupid to compete with a low wage country for labor intensive jobs unless you want those low wages yourself.
You’re right. We aren’t moving towards a knowledge based economy.
We’re already in a knowledge based economy.
Oh for God’s sake…
These labor intensive jobs weren’t low wage jobs until corporations realized they could go find countries with cheaper labor, no pollution laws and no workplace safety controls.
Manufacturing jobs are and always will be the primary engine for sustaining a middle class. You will never keep a robust middle class without manufacturing.
And that economy is already moving overseas. Better get into it now before your employer finds out that they can get the same knowledge workers overseas for less.
Oh wait, that’s already happening. In BIOTECH! At the very least. But you’ve been told this before, haven’t you?
The United States economy is now 70 % consumption.
IF you get rid of consumption, there is not much left.
There have always been countries with lower wages and less stringent regulations.
Any manufacturing job is subject to replacement by cheap labor overseas or a robot.
It’s a world economy. Every country is striving to advance into a knowledge based economy. Some will be more successful than other, but we’re already there.
That doesn’t mean that the best opportunities here won’t be in that type of economy. As countries like China get richer, they won’t have those low wage jobs anymore. When I was a kid, Japan was the land of cheap products. They made the transition to a 1st world economy. Other Asian nations like Korea and Taiwan weren’t far behind. China is on its way, although it’s more accurate to think of China as at least 2 different economies, especially since they maintain strict rules about moving inside the country. It might as well be like the US and Mexico.
You can fight for those jobs paying $1 an hour making sneakers. Me, I’ll focus on what the next new technology is going to be. Good luck.
I’ll repeat what I said in post post 82
Don’t blame me if you keep shifting the focus. I was responding to the post, after that post, where you said: “I was just wondering if it was possible to have an economy where consumption wasn’t the main focus.”
What do you want the “main focus” to be? Even if we reduced spending, it would still be the “main focus” unless we just built stuff we don’t need (like pyramids).
If you want to reduce the use of credit, that’s another thing. But you can’t eliminate consumption from the economy without eliminating the economy.
Historical facts seem to disagree with you.
Why are manufacturing jobs the benchmark by which you measure economic health when we have shifted to an information age economy?
That doesn’t change the fact that here, manufacturing jobs paid well and are the life blood of the middle class.
If that was the case about robots they would have automated instead of gone overseas.
Fat lot of good that is going us. Have you seen the unemployment numbers as of late?
News flash: the knowledge based economy is not a booming sector. Not like manufacturing was. Before it hits its “stride” I can guarantee you that it’ll go overseas.
Which leads to the most dreadful question for capitalist free trade apologists: what in the world is coming up next? The truth is we have no more job booms coming that will support our growing population. We had our last one with the tech boom. You know that just as well as I do.
America is about to settle into a persistent era of 8% displaced workers like we used to laugh at Europe about… because the knowledge based economy is a poor replacement for the job-producing industries that haven’t been replaced but have in fact left for other countries.
For biotech researchers the best opportunities are now in India. They’re already fighting for $1/hour knowledge-based jobs. Already. This wave is about to spread throughout the knowledge based job universe.
One day, soon, YOUR self-proclaimed knowledge based job will migrate overseas because someone in India can do exactly what you do for pennies on your dollar.
You’re confused about my point yet again, even though I’ve explained it to you repeatedly: those jobs didn’t pay just $1 in the US.
Allow me to foretell your future using my patented Read The Giant Spray Painted Writing On The Wall[tm] Technology:
“You can fight for those knowledge based nanotech research jobs paying $1 an hour. Me, I’ll focus on what the next new technology is going to be. Good luck.” Problem is: knowledge based jobs ARE the last step on the new technology ladder and there won’t be anything coming up afterwards. If anyone wishes to say I am wrong then please, tell us right here what comes after knowledge based jobs:
And mark my words, that will happen. In under 15 years. Just in time for MY THREE DAUGHTERS to enter the workforce. Maybe you don’t have kids, though, so you don’t have to worry. Or maybe you do have kids and you’ll just tell them to sink or swim. Capitalists are known for doing that.
New technology jobs in America start migrating overseas the minute they come into existence. En masse.
I’ll tell you what. You give me a cite that China requires cars to be manufactured in China, and a cite that “For biotech researchers the best opportunities are now in India”, and I’ll respond to the rest of your post. If you can’t back up your assertions, you’re just pulling shit out of your ass.
You mean history disagrees that tariffs are helping China? Have you seen their growth lately? Did you not see how their workers managed to strike and get better wages?
Because manufacturing (and tech) produced a lot more jobs (as a percentage of the working class population) than any knowledge based economy ever will.
We are entering an age of European-level permanent unemployment, and this so-called knowledge based economy is insufficient to alleviate that. Because it’s already going overseas.
To use a John Mace quote we will have millions of unemployed Americans fighting with India over $1 an hour knowledge based jobs. A HANDFUL of us will be working high paying knowledge based jobs while the rest of us will be getting our resumes turned away while facing thousands of dollars in college debt acquired in the name of getting a (choose your knowledge industry sector) degree. In short: there will not be enough knowledge industry jobs for the number of qualified workers seeking it.
There are not enough knowledge industry jobs for the number of qualified workers seeking work in that industry right now. These jobs are already being sucked out of the country as we speak.
My Read The Giant Spray Painted Writing On The Wall[tm] computer says this: the maturation of the knowledge based industry will result in the greatest level of bifurcation since at least the 1920s. At least. Bifurcation meaning a very small percentage will get the high paying “new industry” jobs and the rest of America will get the shit jobs. This pattern is developing right now.
You mean the way you pulled shit out of your ass when you said any manufacturing job is subject to be replaced by, among other things, a robot? Or when you said that we’re not competing against other countries for manufacturing jobs?
Or, more hilariously, maybe you can show us where this “free trade” thing exists that you keep insisting is so beneficial to the world.
IOW, you ain’t go shit. Buh-bye.
I’m not shifting focus. Being a layman maybe I’m just not using the right words, or words in way that professionals like you use them. What I’m asking about is could we have an economy where exports and foreign consumption are more important to the economy than imports and US consumption.
I am asking if it’s possible and feasible for us to cut down on our consumption and increase exports, which would mean that other countries would increase their own consumption of course. Or is that a terrible idea and we should just stick to the way things are?
Right now our imports total 198.1 billion dollars and exports total 154.1 billion dollars Site.
What would happen if we consumed less and our import and export totals were equally 176.1 billion dollars?
What would happen if we consumed less and our imports totaled 154.1 billion dollars and our exports equaled 198.1 billion dollars?
Neither do you by your own standards.
Go sell your “we aren’t competing for manufacturing jobs” and “automation is coming” shit elsewhere. You’re done pitching that BS here.
You mean, consume less Made-in-China stuff and buy more American goods?
America needs willpower in order to do that.