# Translation from German (or maybe Hungarian?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 7, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614 "2006-10-07T16:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/1 "2006-10-07T16:41:41Z")
In the play I’m now doing (“The Gazebo” by Alec Coppel, if anyone’s interested — a black comedy written in the Fifties), my character speaks a foreign language. It looks like German — except for the obvious problem that the nouns aren’t properly capitalized — and I can’t quite translate it myself. I can **speak** it just fine; the pronunciation isn’t the problem. The character I play is known, from comments in the script, to have a penchant for throwing Hungarian words into his Scrabble play. Elliott also wraps a dead body in the shower curtains and buries him in the yard. When Nell asks him where the curtains went, he replies that he gave them away to a man soliciting for Hungarian relief. I don’t know if the play mentions Hungarian simply because it’s an odd and funny thing to say, or if perhaps the language **is** Hungarian and that’s why I can’t translate it, or if it’s really German and the playwright (or his editor) goofed up. The lines, with capitalization and spelling precise: > [@](#): > > NELL: Darling—you are better. > ELLIOTT: I am infinitely better, my darling. Und detzt bitte ich ihre liebden um das maechste manuett? > NELL: Ever durlaucht es ist mir eine ehr. It’s obvious he’s asking her to dance to the minuet that’s playing, because that’s just what they do next. What does it translate to, exactly? Later, when the jig is up and Elliott’s about to be caught by Harlow, the Assistant District Attorney: > [@](#): > > HARLOW. (Protesting.) Elliott—it’s no use— > NELL. (Terribly anxious for him.) Darling—please. > ELLIOTT. (Quickly puts a hand out to Nell.) Bitte sage kein wort have keine angst ich weiss genau was ich tue. Komm her. > NELL. Ich vorstich nicht. > ELLIOTT. Komm mir und sei still. I understand he’s telling her, in general: don’t say a word, don’t worry, I know what I’m doing, come here and be still. That is obvious from context, and from some of the words I do know. How does it properly translate? If it is German, it looks like a huge run-on sentence to me. The play has a number of typographical errors, and evidence of previous edits stick out like the spars of a shipwreck, so I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the language is misspelled or badly translated. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/2 "2006-10-07T17:31:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Und detzt bitte ich ihre liebden um das maechste manuett? Probably: Und **j** etzt bitte ich Ihre Liebden um das **n** ächsste M **e** nuett? **And now I ask [archaic version of ‘you’ as addressed to a noble person of princely rank] for the next minuet** > [@](#): > > Ever durlaucht es ist mir eine ehr. Probably: E **u** er Dur **ch** laucht, es ist mir eine Ehr’ [i.e.: Ehre] **[Form of address for a prince or elector], it is an honour to me (or: you honour me)** This dialogue has the tone of an exchange at a 18th century court; this is probably by way of being droll. Even persons of the appropriate ranks of nobility would not have talked like that in the 20th century. > [@](#): > > Bitte sage kein wort have keine angst ich weiss genau was ich tue. Komm her. Probably: Bitte sage kein Wort, ha **b** e keine Angst\*\*.\*\* Ich weiß genau was ich tue. Komm her. **Please say no word [i.e. be quiet, but without overtones of censure], have no fear. I know exactly what I am doing.** > [@](#): > > Ich vorstich nicht. Probably: Ich v **e** rst **eh** nicht. **I do not understand.** > [@](#): > > Komm mir und sei still. There is a preposition missing here. Either: Komm **mit** mir und sei still. **Come with me and be quiet.** Or: Komm **zu** mir und sei still. **Come to me and be quiet** Or “mir” could be a misspelling of “mit”: Komm mi **t** und sei still. **Come with me and be quiet** In contrast with the first dialogue, the second one is neither archaic nor stilted. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/3 "2006-10-07T17:33:41Z")
Oh, and I forgot: it’s German all right. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/4 "2006-10-07T17:42:18Z")
To recognise Hungarian, it has lots of acute marks, e.g. “é”, except some of them are doubled up. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/5 "2006-10-09T01:03:47Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] To recognise Hungarian, it has lots of acute marks, e.g. “é”, except some of them are doubled up. [/QUOTE] For example? ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/6 "2006-10-09T04:20:54Z")
[QUOTE=Jamaika a jamaikaiaké] For example? [/QUOTE] From the [lovely Omniglot](http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hungarian.htm): > [@](#): > > Sample text in Hungarian > > Minden emberi lény szabadon születik és egyenlő méltósága és joga van. Az emberek, ésszel és lelkiismerettel bírván, egymással szemben testvéri szellemben kell hogy viseltessenek. Notice the ő, which is an o with the accent mark doubled up, like **jjimm** said. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/7 "2006-10-09T04:39:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bambi Hassenpfeffer] From the [lovely Omniglot](http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hungarian.htm): Notice the ő, which is an o with the accent mark doubled up, like **jjimm** said. [/QUOTE] Yep. It’s actually a long umlaut. So ő is a longer version of ö, and ű is a long version of ü. Hungarian vowels, for reference a á e é i í o ó ö ő u ú ü ű, and sometimes y ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/8 "2006-10-09T04:42:16Z")
Huh — I swore I responded to this thread days ago. Hamsters must have eaten it. Anyway, thank you very much for the translation! I’m glad to know I was pretty close to the mark with the intent of the lines. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/9 "2006-10-09T16:25:08Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] To recognise Hungarian, it has lots of acute marks, e.g. “é”, except some of them are doubled up. [/QUOTE] Well, you won’t find e̋ in Hungarian, but you will find ő and ű. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/10 "2006-10-09T16:39:56Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Yep. It’s actually a long umlaut. [/QUOTE] Actually, it’s not an umlaut, which technically refers to a certain kind of vowel change that occurs in Germanic languages when a word is modified (through inflection, conjugation, etc.), and also the diacritic (¨) used to mark it. Both English and German have umlauts (the former unmarked), but Hungarian isn’t a Germanic language, and its letters o and ö are completely distinct, so its double-dot diacritic would be better referred to as a diaeresis. With respect to the relationship between ö and ő, IIRC sometimes they are distinct and sometimes ő is simply a modification (lengthening) of ö. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/11 "2006-10-09T16:54:44Z")
[QUOTE=psychonaut] Actually, it’s not an umlaut, which technically refers to a certain kind of vowel change that occurs in Germanic languages when a word is modified (through inflection, conjugation, etc.), and also the diacritic (¨) used to mark it. Both English and German have umlauts (the former unmarked), but Hungarian isn’t a Germanic language, and its letters o and ö are completely distinct, so its double-dot diacritic would be better referred to as a diaeresis. With respect to the relationship between ö and ő, IIRC sometimes they are distinct and sometimes ő is simply a modification (lengthening) of ö. [/QUOTE] The ö and ü in Hungarian are the same as the ö and ü vowels in German (representing rounded back vowels.) The ő and ű are simply lengthenings of these vowels. I can hold conversations in both languages, but I am not native, so if you can show me a source which disagrees with my statement, I would be happy to be corrected. I called the symbol an “umlaut” because it performs the same function (a specific changing of sound) as the German umlaut. Perhaps the distinction is so fine that umlaut can only be used with Germanic languages. I am aware of the word diaeresis (as the New Yorker is so fond of using them), but thought that umlaut was the more precise word in this case. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/12 "2006-10-09T17:01:05Z")
Wikipedia, at any rate, agrees with me: > [@](#): > > The umlaut is the diacritic mark ( ¨ ) which indicates the phonological phenomenon of umlaut in German. The umlauted vowels are ä, ö, and ü. **The same name is used in other languages which have borrowed these symbols from German.** > > […] > > he Estonian alphabet has borrowed \<ä\>, \<ö\> and \<ü\> from German, Swedish and Finnish have \<ä\> and \<ö\>, and Slovak has \<ä\>. In Estonian, Swedish, Finnish and Sami \<ä\> and \<ö\> denote [æ] and [ø] respectively. **Hungarian, on the other hand, has \<ü\>, and \<ö\>** Emphasis mine. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-from-german-or-maybe-hungarian/375614/13 "2006-10-09T17:02:09Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] The ö and ü in Hungarian are the same as the ö and ü vowels in German (representing rounded back vowels.) [/QUOTE] :smack: Proofread, proofread, proofread! Rounded _front_ vowels, that is :smack: