# Translation into Sindarin, Quenya or Westron **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416 "2007-06-01T22:48:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/1 "2007-06-01T22:48:23Z")
Every year at Pentecost, our church has the following Bible passage (Acts 2:5-15) read aloud, simultaneously, by different parishioners in various languages, including English, Russian, Spanish, French, Xhosa and others, to mimic its “speaking in tongues” content. I’d like to get it translated into one of Tolkien’s languages. Anywhere online where I could submit it for translation? Or could any Doper help me out ( **Qadgop** or **What Exit?** , perhaps)? The placenames and proper nouns could remain in English. \*5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. \* Thanks. . ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/2 "2007-06-02T02:05:45Z")
You might try this link. [http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language1.htm#sinpoetry](http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language1.htm#sinpoetry) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/3 "2007-06-02T03:44:30Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Every year at Pentecost, our church has the following Bible passage (Acts 2:5-15) read aloud, simultaneously, by different parishioners in various languages, including English, Russian, Spanish, French, Xhosa and others, to mimic its “speaking in tongues” content. I’d like to get it translated into one of Tolkien’s languages. Anywhere online where I could submit it for translation? Or could any Doper help me out ( **Qadgop** or **What Exit?** , perhaps)? The placenames and proper nouns could remain in English. \*5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. \* Thanks. . [/QUOTE] Are you… Are you going to read it in church? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/4 "2007-06-02T04:07:51Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] …Are you going to read it in church?.. [/QUOTE] I just might! ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/5 "2007-06-02T14:58:02Z")
What **Baker** linked to. Also, [http://sindarin.weet.us/](http://sindarin.weet.us/) for Sindarin. And here’s a board devoted to translation help: [http://pub83.ezboard.com/belfcomp](http://pub83.ezboard.com/belfcomp) It seems like more of a cobweb site recently, but some useful emails or other links can be found there. Otherwise, try contacting David Salo. He’s the linguistic expert at University of Wisconsin that helped with the LOTR films. I won’t give his email here, as he’s not okayed me to distribute it, but a little googling on his name would turn up contact info, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/6 "2007-06-02T22:46:03Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I just might! [/QUOTE] Is anyone else in the congregation a Tolkein fan? (You know, there doesn’t seem to be much religion of **any** kind in Middle Earth . . .) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/7 "2007-06-03T14:12:57Z")
Has anyone read S.M. Stirling’s series that begins with Dies the Fire? A group of supporting characters in that series starts speaking the Elvish tongues. At one point it’s mentioned they have to create terms that didn’t exist, like “to pee”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/8 "2007-06-03T19:09:01Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] \*\*Translation into Sindarin, Quenya or Westron \*\* [/QUOTE] I didn’t even have to look that up to get it. Are we geeks, or are we geeks? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/9 "2007-06-03T19:20:30Z")
I’d love to see a service where it was read in Swedish Chef: > [@Looke-a or maybe Lutefisk](#): > > 5 Und zeere-a vere-a dvelleeng et Jerooselem Joos, defuoot mee, oooot ooff ifery neshun under heefee. > 6 Noo vhee thees ves nueesed ebrued, zee moolteetoode-a ceme-a tugezeer, und vere-a cunffuoonded, becoose-a thet ifery mun heerd zeem speek in hees oovn lungooege-a. > 7 Und zeey vere-a ell emezed und merfelled, seyeeng oone-a tu unuzeer, Behuld, ere-a nut ell zeese-a vheech speek Geleeleeuns? > 8 Und hoo heer ve-a ifery mun in oooor oovn tungooe-a, vhereeen ve-a vere-a burn? > 9 Pertheeuns, und Medes, und Ilemeetes, und zee dvellers in Mesuputemeea, und in Joodeea, und Ceppeduceea, in Puntoos, und Eseea, > 10 Phrygeea, und Pemphyleea, in Igypt, und in zee perts ooff Leebya ebuoot Cyrene-a, und strungers ooff Rume-a, Joos und pruselytes, > 11 Cretes und Erebeeuns, ve-a du heer zeem speek in oooor tungooes zee vunderffool vurks ooff Gud. > 12 Und zeey vere-a ell emezed, und vere-a in duoobt, seyeeng oone-a tu unuzeer, Vhet meunet thees? > 13 Oozeers muckeeng seeed, Zeese-a mee ere-a fooll ooff noo veene-a. > 14 Boot Peter, stundeeng up veet zee ilefee, leeffted up hees fueece-a, und seeed untu zeem, Ye-a mee ooff Joodeea, und ell ye-a thet dvell et Jerooselem, be-a thees knoon untu yuoo, und heerkee tu my vurds: > 15 Fur zeese-a ere-a nut droonkee, es ye-a sooppuse-a, seeeeng it is boot zee thurd huoor ooff zee dey. > Bork Bork Bork! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/10 "2007-06-03T19:34:19Z")
[QUOTE=coffeecat] I’d love to see a service where it was read in Swedish Chef: [/QUOTE] In high-school English class we read (out loud) [the Our Father in Old English.](http://www.lphrc.org/rmk/Pray/ang-our.html) It sounded **exactly** like the Swedish Chef! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/11 "2007-06-04T13:17:57Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Is anyone else in the congregation a Tolkein fan? (You know, there doesn’t seem to be much religion of **any** kind in Middle Earth . . .) [/QUOTE] Yes, the rector (top priest) and I are both Tolkien freaks. He once built an entire sermon around a passage in “The Return of the King,” where Frodo and Sam are in Mordor. Sam looks up and sees a star high in the sky, brightly shining despite the gloom of Mordor all around him, and takes heart. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/12 "2007-06-04T13:26:27Z")
I’d like to hear it in Blikster. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/13 "2007-06-05T03:50:58Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Yes, the rector (top priest) and I are both Tolkien freaks. He once built an entire sermon around a passage in “The Return of the King,” where Frodo and Sam are in Mordor. Sam looks up and sees a star high in the sky, brightly shining despite the gloom of Mordor all around him, and takes heart. [/QUOTE] So,\*\* Elendil’s Heir\*\*, sounds like you’re Episcopalian too! That makes at least three of us on the Dope, probably more. I know **swampbear** is also “one of us”! We had three languages last Pentecost. One member spoke an African language, not sure what it was. The wife of our canon spoke in her native Filipino, and one member, from Sri Lanka, spoke his native language(also not sure of the name). It made a change from the usual German, or Spanish, or other European tongues. I could do Korean. Wouldn’t know what I was saying anymore, but the alphabet is phonetic and I can still pronounce it. ---
**Author:** ![swampbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampbear/32/467_2.png) [@swampbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampbear)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/14 "2007-06-10T23:19:36Z")
I say next Pentecost all us Episcopal types form a pact and get the passage read in Elvish and Klingon! Hmmm… maybe I need to work on the “southern American” translation too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/15 "2007-06-12T04:29:13Z")
[QUOTE=Baker] So,\*\* Elendil’s Heir\*\*, sounds like you’re Episcopalian too! That makes at least three of us on the Dope, probably more. I know **swampbear** is also “one of us”!.. [/QUOTE] Yes, I am! Remember this? [Ask the guy who went to the Episcopal General Convention - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=376678) Thanks, everyone, for your help. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/16 "2007-06-12T09:35:03Z")
Heck, I wasn’t remembering that! I have really bad memory retention. Good thread though. I agree with **swampbear**. If I could get a good translation into one of the Middle Earth languages, or into Klingon, I could masquerade it as something else on Pentecost. Well, maybe not, our bishop is a bit of a sobersides, but I could do it for Sunday School, the kids would think it was cool. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/17 "2007-06-12T14:09:25Z")
So, what have you got against Klingonese? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/18 "2007-06-12T15:48:39Z")
If you’re asking me, nothing. But our rector is more of a Tolkien freak than a Trekker. Don’t know if he’d go for Klingonese (even if “the whole _quadrant_ is learning to speak it!”). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/19 "2007-06-29T04:31:19Z")
An update. **Qadgop** , my thanks, as your second link led me to a very helpful Tolkien linguist from Norway named Helge Fauskanger. He wrote this: Here is a rough “Neo-Quenya” translation that should be good enough for your purpose. I must tell you, as I have told so many others, that translating anything into a Tolkien language is an art rather than an exact science. Even for this short text, I had to derive some new words from Tolkien’s roots. For instance, no word for “proselytes” occurs in Tolkien’s material; the term _querindor_ here used means basically people who turn, i.e. to the religion of the Jews. You said I could leave the proper names alone, but some of them must actually be changed to fit the phonological structure of Quenya. For instance, the name “Cappadocia” must become _Capparocia_ because Quenya cannot have D in this position; it must change to R. …I cannot tell for certain whether Tolkien would have recognized this as acceptable Quenya at all. But it is about the best I can do, based on published material… 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. _Ar marner Yerúsalemessë Yúrar, neri estelo, et ilya nórello nu menel._ 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. _Sí írë lamma sina hlárina né, i rimbë hostanë, ar neltë rucinë, an ilya nérte-hlarnë quéta véra lamberyassë._ 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? _Ar neltë illi quantë elmendo, quétala minë i exenna, En! ma umir ilyë iquétar Alílëar?_ 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? _Ar manen hlarilwë ilya nér véra lambelwassë, yassë nelwë nónë?_ 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. _Parsëar, ar Méri, ar Elamyar, ar i marir Mesopotamiassë, ar Yúrëassë, ar mi Capparocia, ar Pontus, ar Ásia, Feríhia, ar Pamfilia, Mirrandoressë, ar irantassen Livyo os Cirénë, ar ettelëar Rómo, Yúrar ar querindor, Hrétëarar Aravyar, hlarilwet quéta vérë lambelwassen pa Eruo elmendar._ 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? _Ar neltë illi quantë elmendo, ar úmer tancë, quétina minë i exenna: Mana tëasin?_ 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. _Exi quenter yaiwessë: Neri sinë nar quantë vinya limpëo._ 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: _Mal Péter, ortala as i minquë, ortanë ómarya ar quentë tienna: A neri Yúrëo,ar ilyë i marir Yerúsalemessë, na sin istaina len, ar lasta quettanyannar:_ 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. \*An queni sinë umir limpunquë, ve intyaldë, an sin er i neldëa lúmë i aurëoná. \* ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/20 "2007-06-29T12:36:16Z")
I am in awe. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416.md?page=2)