# Translation into Sindarin, Quenya or Westron **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416 "2007-06-01T22:48:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/21 "2007-06-29T12:55:45Z")
That’s just beautiful! \<\\> Glad to be of help. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/22 "2007-06-29T13:26:19Z")
That is very cool. Hopefully it goes over very well. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/23 "2007-06-29T13:49:43Z")
I still prefer Blikster. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/24 "2007-06-29T17:13:20Z")
There has **got** to be some way I can pass off Quenya and get this on the ticket for next Pentecost at my church! It reads easier than my extremely rusty Korean. To read that fluidly anymore I’d have to transliterate the Hangul letters into Roman script. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/25 "2007-06-29T19:55:42Z")
I tried saying a few lines last night, and it flowed wonderfully off the tongue. My pronunciation might have made the Professor wince, and I’m not sure I could have made Elladan and Elrohir understand me, but it was fun. Now I’m looking forward to doing the entire reading in church. Pentecost 2008 can’t come too soon! ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/26 "2007-06-29T20:06:02Z")
I just hope your pastor doesn’t get all upset. “Never before have words in that tongue be spoken here!” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/27 "2007-06-29T20:10:01Z")
He’s already seen the translation and was quite pleased. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/28 "2007-06-29T21:48:06Z")
Nice indeed. I recommend contacting Liv Tyler to help you with the, uh, pronunciation. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/29 "2007-06-30T03:56:21Z")
An _excellent_ idea. I’ll get right on her… I mean, it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/30 "2013-02-18T18:29:13Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes, the rector (top priest) and I are both Tolkien freaks. He once built an entire sermon around a passage in _The Return of the King_, where Frodo and Sam are in Mordor. Sam looks up and sees a star high in the sky, brightly shining despite the gloom of Mordor all around him, and takes heart. And here’s that sermon, which he refined from many years before when he first delivered it at another parish. He delivered it again on Christmas Eve. Very good stuff (.pdf file): [http://www.stpauls-church.org/documents/Sermons/2012%2012%2024%20Star%20over%20Mordor%20Star%20over%20Bethlehem%20AMG.pdf](http://www.stpauls-church.org/documents/Sermons/2012%2012%2024%20Star%20over%20Mordor%20Star%20over%20Bethlehem%20AMG.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/31 "2013-02-18T19:10:47Z")
Oh that sermon was wonderful! I have a real respect for good preachers, it’s a very difficult job. I once had to deliver two sermons. The church I was a member of was between clergy, and while we could usually get a supply pastor, a couple of Sundays nobody was available. Yours truly was head of the Worship Committee, so it fell to me to conduct the services. Not so hard, I don’t have a fear of public speaking, once I have a speech in front of me. But writing a good sermon is harder than an ordinary speech. I keep a file of good sermons I’ve heard and really liked, I’m going to add that one to it!😛 Oh, and I have done the Pentecost readings as one of the “tongues” for the past two years now, in Korean. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/32 "2013-02-18T19:22:21Z")
I’m so glad you updated this thread - somehow I missed the translation that had been posted earlier. That is beautiful - so flowing and elegant. A perfect addition to the service, I think. (I still want to see Klingon - I imagine it will end up being a bit more… insistent sounding. “Praise the Lord or I gut you like a khlath-fish!” 😃 ) Also, I don’t know if this is possible after all this time, but do you think someone who is reasonably fluent could post an audio of the Elvish up to YouTube? Personally, I think it would be lovely just to have it out there (I would love to see the reaction to someone translating it and figuring out what it was!) but also, I have to think that there are other reasonably geeky Episcopalians out there who would be all for using Quenya themselves, they just don’t know how to read the language properly or confidently. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/33 "2013-02-19T00:50:29Z")
Straight from the horse’s mouth: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6de_SbVUVfA) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/34 "2013-02-19T01:42:19Z")
Oh that is great. I’d never heard Tolkien’s voice before. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/35 "2013-02-19T01:49:43Z")
> [@swampbear](#): > > I say next Pentecost all us Episcopal types form a pact and get the passage read in Elvish and Klingon! > > Hmmm… maybe I need to work on the “southern American” translation too. 😃 Long, long ago (ca 1970-72) my mother had a New Testament written in “Georgian” - replacing original terms with words your typical Georgian could relate to. So the Mount of Olives became “Peach Tree Hill” (what does an olive tree look like?), and there were several instances where “this here Jesus” walked from Atlanta to Macon or vice versa (how far is it from Nazareth to Jerusalem?). I thought it was The Peach Tree Bible, but Google is being unhelpful… ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/36 "2013-02-19T03:08:27Z")
Try _The Cotton Patch Gospel_, and example is in the link. > **[Cotton Patch Gospel – Matthew – Clarence Jordan](https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/scriptures/cotton-patch-gospel-matthew-clarence-jordan/)** > > The Cotton Patch Gospel recasts the Gospel of Matthew into the language and culture of the mid-20th century United States South… ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/37 "2013-02-19T03:14:47Z")
Oh my stars. That was impressive, that was. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/38 "2013-02-19T03:20:11Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Oh my stars. That was impressive, that was. I liked the link to the Christmas story in Luke. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416/39 "2013-04-08T01:39:35Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And here’s that sermon, which he refined from many years before when he first delivered it at another parish. He delivered it again on Christmas Eve. Very good stuff (.pdf file): [http://www.stpauls-church.org/documents/Sermons/2012%2012%2024%20Star%20over%20Mordor%20Star%20over%20Bethlehem%20AMG.pdf](http://www.stpauls-church.org/documents/Sermons/2012%2012%2024%20Star%20over%20Mordor%20Star%20over%20Bethlehem%20AMG.pdf) I thought I’d post the sermon here in case it’s ever removed from the parish website: [spoiler] A sermon for Christmas Eve 2012 at St. Paul’s Episcopal Church, Cleveland Heights, Ohio by the Reverend Alan M. Gates, Rector “Star over Mordor, Star over Bethlehem” “Okay, children,” said Dr. Rick Nelson last Thursday after the children’s choir rehearsal. “Before we enjoy our dinner together, let’s sing the Doxology.” The children put on their best angelic faces, and began: “Praise God from whom all blessings flow…” And then, as I watched one little girl, I saw her sing earnestly: “Praise him all preachers here below!” (That’s Preachers, with a P.) And, why not? Praise him, all preachers here below. My heart melted a little to think of the Doxology as a special invocation for the preacher. But it is, of course, an invocation for all God’s people. Praise God all creatures, here below. On this night of festive pomp and singing; on this night of light and joy, Praise God. Praise God, from whom all blessings flow. Travel with me to Middle Earth, that land so masterfully created by J. R. R. Tolkien. This month we have been taken back to Middle Earth with the release of Peter Jackson’s film, The Hobbit, part the first. The Lord of the Ringstrilogy was a remarkable piece of cinema in the last decade, while the books captivated many of us decades before. So now, if you will, let us take up near the final segment of the tale. It is a scene which did not make it into the film, yet has always been for me one of the most moving passages in the entire cycle. The hobbit Frodo Baggins and his faithful servant Sam are near the end of their long and bitter journey. Their dangerous mission hastaken them from peril to deadly peril, and finally into the heart of the Enemy’s barren, evil land. They are in Mordor, in the very shadow of Mount Doom. A strange cloud has covered the sky for days – a shadow created as a weapon of the enemy. Exhausted beyond words, the two hobbits have collapsed for the night under a curtain of brambles. Frodo has fallen asleep. Sam struggled with his own weariness…. Then at last, to keep himself awake, he crawled from the hiding-place and looked out. The land seemed full of creaking and cracking and sly noises…. Far above… the night sky was still dim and pale. There, peeping among the [clouds, high above] the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the [evil] Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach. Now, for a moment, his own fate, and even his master’s, ceased to trouble him. He crawled back into the brambles and laid himself by Frodo’s side, and putting away all fear, he cast himself into a deep, untroubled sleep. [LOR, Book VI, Chapter 2] A hopeless journey. A foreboding cloud. A small, white star, twinkling in the darkness. A re-kindling of hope. Hear again tonight’s words from the prophet Isaiah: The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who lived in a land of deep darkness – on them light has shined…. For a child has been born for us, a son given to us; … and he is named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.[Is 9:2-4, 6-7] Christians gather in churches everywhere this holy night to hear again the story of God’s light come into the world. We hear how shepherds, in their own dark night, were startled by the brightness of God’s glory. And did you hear what the angels said to the shepherds? In that first announcement of Christ’s birth to humankind, the angel does not say, “Greetings! Merry Christmas!” The angel says, “Fear not.” Be not afraid! That is the Christmas message to us, my friends: be not afraid. For we are not strangers to dark clouds and fearful forebodings. A cloud of grief covers the nation, as the Commemoration of the Holy Innocents arrived early this year; a cloud of anguish and frustration, at our collective failure to keep safe the vulnerable in our midst. A cloud of threat and fratricide hangs over the land of our Savior, where a desperate dictator bombs his own people, and ancient enmities claim new victims in the name of religious entitlement. A cloud of war hangs yet over Afghan skies, where would-be peacekeepers are entangled in a deadly web. A cloud of sorrow hangs over our homes, where our dearly loved ones ail, and our broken loves fail. Dark clouds we know, we know them well. On this night a shaft of light shines down upon us. And reassurance is ours! Christ is born. God is with us. The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light. A light of hope – for whom? For the frightened child, crying out in the dark of night. For the spiritual kin to that hobbit, weary traveler in the gloom of an evil land. For every person without roof or hearth. For the bread-winner who has lost her job. For the soldier under Afghan skies. For the bereaved parent, whose grief is immeasurable. For the one whose future is uncertain. For you and for me in our own loneliness, discouragement, or despair. Jesus Christ was born for you and for me. J.R.R. Tolkien was no stranger to sorrow nor to desperate circumstance. He lost his father at age three, and his mother at age twelve. In World War I the young Tolkien saw combat, suffered from trench fever, watched close friends die. He lived through the Second World War in a nation threatened by a dark cloud of annihilation. No Pollyanna was Tolkien, but a man of deep Christian faith. He ardently rejected the notion that his stories were allegorical, yet he was glad to assert that they declared deep truth about reality. And so, dear friends, in the reality of our own national life this month, in the reality of personal blows that perplex us and global dangers that vex us, travel with me once more to look in on the hobbit, Samwise. Weary and feeling finally defeated, … he bowed his head into his hands. And then softly, to his own surprise, there at the vain end of his long journey and his grief, moved by what thought in his heart he could not tell, Sam began to sing. His voice sounded thin and quavering… He murmured old childish tunes out of the Shire…, while words of his own came unbidden to fit the simple tune. Though here at journey’s end I lie in darkness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high, beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell: I will not say the Day is done, nor bid the Stars farewell. [LOR, Book VI, Chapter 1] He would not yield to the darkness of despair. He would sing out the conviction of his hope. Jesus Christ was born for us this night. And how shall we respond? We respond as Samwise did. We sing out in hope. Perhaps the most important thing we do this night is sing. In the face of uncertainty, loss, or grief, we sing. Under the specterterror, we sing. Into the darkness of the night around us, we sing. Through joyous laughter, or through lonely tears, we sing: Gloria, in excelsis deo! Oh, that star! Oh, that twinkling star! The beauty of it smote Sam’s heart. For it reminded him that, in the end, the enemy’s cloud would have to be a passing thing. That higher, and brighter, and beyond the reach of any evil Shadow, there was “light and high beauty.” A star over Mordor said that to Sam. A Star over Bethlehem says that to us. The true light which enlightens everyone, has come into the world. [Jn 1:9] Higher, brighter, truer than any cloud under the shadow of which we dwell, the Christ star shines on. Sing out your joy, o Christian people![/spoiler] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/translation-into-sindarin-quenya-or-westron/406416.md?page=1)