# Transsexual Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565 "2003-03-27T18:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/101 "2003-03-31T02:21:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Glory \* > **I find this particularly interesting coming from a Christian. What is a body compared to the soul? The body might be biologically male/female…but the person, the soul, the mind, the spirit, the essence is the opposite.** Don’t forget, there are Christians who think that men who have sex with other men are an abomination. Apparently, the body **does** have serious significance with respect to the soul, at least for those people. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/102 "2003-03-31T03:08:31Z")
“A person can sue McDonald’s for an accident that left them with third degree burns that required skin grafts. If that ever happens to you after kissing a transsexual then I’ll fully support your lawsuit.” –Obviously, you’ve never been kissed by _me_ . . . ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/103 "2003-03-31T03:15:25Z")
Eve is our _scorchin’_ hot momma ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/104 "2003-03-31T03:15:28Z")
Eve is our _scorchin’_ hot momma ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/105 "2003-03-31T03:18:58Z")
**Eve** must be Madame Pele. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/106 "2003-03-31T03:33:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > **Anthracite, get over yourself. You don’t need to hyperbolize and throw around hot-button words like “hate” and "ignorance"when they aren’t appropriate. My position is not one of ignorance, nor is it one of hate. Those are just emotionally charged words that people like to use that mean “people who don’t agree with me”.** Let’s see - a man reads “hate” and “ignorance” in my post (in a section editorializing on and referring to the futility of debates on transsexual issues AND gun control), sees the “same players” argument (but doesn’t get it and thinks they apply to him, even though I don’t recall him being in any past TG/TS threads), thinks they automatically apply to him, and _I’m_ the one who needs to “get over myself”? Who knew? I know that you and your SO feel that you are persecuted somewhat on this Board, and you are picked on a bit, this is true. I’m sorry for that, but kindly “get over yourself”, **yourself.** So, are you going to post where I said those words applied to you? Can’t do it, can you? I wonder why not… 😕 I answered your questions to you, and to Jersey straightforward and without malice. You are choosing to personalize this further. Yes, I did say you were being a jerk in your response to KellyM, and you were. I quoted the pertinent portions why, and I didn’t even call you on the crude “wiener” reference. Nor did I mention this reference: > [@](#): > > I’m not attacking what anybody thinks they are. I think it’s silly and taken to an extreme, but i’m not attacking it. If someone had said “I’m not attacking Joe’s religion. I think it’s silly and taken to an extreme, but oh no, I’m not attacking it”, you would have been all over them like hair on the proverbial gorilla. That’s pretty clear mockery to me. You were being insensitive to TG/TS persons, and this was shown from your own use of language in this very thread. I’m sorry if this upsets you, but it’s true. You were, and are, not conducting yourself in a manner that convinces others that you are being sincere in trying to understand. And the fact that a few people here have already written off trying to communicate with you this early in the thread should be a clear warning signal that there is some breakdown in the meeting of the minds. But that’s not me and you. On that subject, I’m telling you that I wasn’t making those references to refer to you. Your choices are: 1. Accept that, or 2. Don’t accept it, and call me a lair. Oh, and Joe? For future reference? Believe me, if I wanted to apply the terms “hate” and “ignorance” to you, I would have motherfucking come out and said it to you, right here on this Board. I wouldn’t have been a filthy little coward about it, like some pieces of disgusting human waste, and done it in LiveJournal or IRC (and because you feel picked on, no, I’m not referring to you. Unless you still think I’m lying, in which case just sod off). I know I’ve made my point clear. There should be no further ambiguity. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/107 "2003-03-31T15:03:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sterra \* > \*\*Why not? I mean obviously you believe that to be true, but I’d say that you are lying if you tell other people that. It is a fact that KellyM is a woman and saying she is not is a lie. \*\* Well, she is someone who presents herself as a woman. Sorry, if you are born with a woman’s body, you are a woman. If you hate it so much, you can certainly have it surgically altered. And yes, I knew (and danced with-work situation) with a woman who wasn’t born that way. I was born brunette, but i dye my hair blonde and have done so for 13 years. I am still a brunette, no matter what. I am also sure JoeC will be surprised to find I agree with him publicly, but it is so. I am sure you (and the transgendered folks) **feel** like you are the opposite sex from what your body showed, but lots of people **feel** they are (insert whatever people may imagine about themselves). Well, I’ve said my mind, now I’ll slink away and read some IMHO’s. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/108 "2003-03-31T15:19:25Z")
**vanilla** : being a woman is not something that arises from your genitals, or your uterus, or your ovaries. I was born a woman, whether you recognize it or not. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/109 "2003-03-31T15:21:40Z")
I didn’t say you couldn’t say you are a woman or not. I certainly don’t plan on telling anyone you weren’t born that way(if I knew you). Doesn’t being a woman also arise from your hormones? Obviously, women and girls have differing hormones than guys (thank God!) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/110 "2003-03-31T15:44:13Z")
**Vanilla** , you seem a lot more reasonable than **Joe** or **Jersey**. . . Now, research indicates that I have a female hypothalamus. I have female hormones (OK, I do take them orally—but they are still coursing through my body). I have a female body: neither boyfriends nor doctors have noticed anything amiss. I have also been living as a female since 1977—more than half my life. You’re a reasonable woman. Should I be using the men’s room? Should I be legally able to marry you, but not **Polycarp**? [Assuming we were all single, of course.] ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/111 "2003-03-31T15:46:05Z")
**vanilla** , it’s so gracious of you to give me _permission_ to say that I’m a woman. Thank you _ever_ so much for that generous gift. :rolleyes: And, no, being a woman does not arise from your hormones, either. Do you believe that females with PCOS are not really “women” because their hormones levels are different than those of a female of reproductive age? Are you saying that **Deadly Nightlight** , **Flamsterette\_X** , **Brynda** , **slackergirl** , and **Biggirl** are not women? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/112 "2003-03-31T15:47:38Z")
Are you kidding? Were we all single, I’d be after **Polycarp** myself! As for the mens room, I found its always safer for anyone to use the woman’s room. Especially if one is trans, or in drag. Woman are a LOT less likely to take offense, or get violent. Which is why parents take their boy children into the womens room with them when young, and not fathers taking their daughters into the mens rooms. Did that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/113 "2003-03-31T15:49:18Z")
I didn’t give you permission. You don’t need it. I was (or so I thought) expressing MY opinion. (hormones make you defensive eh?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/114 "2003-03-31T15:51:03Z")
It makes sense, but seems somewhat unclear or evasive. Am I a woman, or a five-year-old boy? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/115 "2003-03-31T15:51:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*–Obviously, you’ve never been kissed by _me_ . . . \*\* I cannot claim to have enjoyed that pleasure, but as soon as I find my asbestos lip gloss… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\* > Doesn’t being a woman also arise from your hormones? > Obviously, women and girls have differing hormones than guys (thank God!) \*\* Yeah, but you can take pills for that. I’m not transsexual but I have an endocrine disorder so I get some of my hormones out of a bottle myself. I think people who’ve never had to take hormone medication would be surprised at how big a difference they make. I wouldn’t particularly want to become a man, but I’m sure if I went on testosterone supplements I’d soon be pretty darn masculine. And if I actually identified as a man on top of that, well, I think for all intents and purposes I’d be a man. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/116 "2003-03-31T15:53:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*It makes sense, but seems somewhat unclear or evasive. Am I a woman, or a five-year-old boy? \*\* you are a woman Now, but were not one at birth. The womans room is always safer . For anyone! ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/117 "2003-03-31T16:04:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I know that you and your SO feel that you are persecuted somewhat on this Board, and you are picked on a bit, this is true. I’m sorry for that, but kindly “get over yourself”, yourself. [slight hijack] We do not feel persecuted at all. Please don’t be sorry. We just have a different opinion of what hate and ignorance is. We believe that hate is feeling hostility for someone, to not love, or to detest. We have never claimed to hate anyone here on this board, and we do not hate anyone here on this board. Most people here believe hate is not seeing things the way they see it. This is not hate, this is disagreeing, no matter how you slice it. [/end hijack] Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. We know and have learned from this board and other cites what people believe about this particular subject. Again, people here believe ignorance is not agreeing with what they believe to be true. I have seen more hate here than any place I have been. People here get so wrapped up in nothing that they go as far as being angry that someone wishes us well. That is hate and ignorance. If anything, I feel sorry for them. This doesn’t mean that they want me to feel sorry for them, it’s that you just can’t help it. It is just a little annoying that people spout off the words hate all the time with nothing to back it up. Then again, we have come to expect it, and we realize this is just a message board, we do not take it personal. No hard feeling Anthracite. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/118 "2003-03-31T16:05:52Z")
**vanilla** , actually, my hormones make me rather less defensive. It’s hard to describe how much more “at ease” I was once I started hormone replacement. And I don’t think it was a placebo effect; I really do think it was a real change in my mental state. I attribute this to finally having blood chemistry that matched what my brain was expecting to have around. This was reinforced the time I missed a few doses and developed something that could best described as “PMS from hell”. I’ve been very careful not to miss a dose since then. Using transdermal patches has helped immensely with that. No, the defensiveness is a consequence of your condescending attitude. Your attitude seems to be one of amusedly tolerating the silly little people who insist that they are something they are not, rather than one of trying to understand, or failing that trying to accept without understand, that we really are what we claim to be. While this is a far sight better than the vicious nastiness of people like **Joe\_Cool** , it is still very annoying. Treating transsexuals as if they were deluded crazy people who need protection is not much better than treating them as if they were dangerous criminals. I can’t speak for **Eve** , but I tell you, I was a woman _at birth_. It just took me longer to realize it than most, and some people still haven’t figured it out yet. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/119 "2003-03-31T16:07:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > Question-does one get a hysterectomy if one is FtM? It depends on several factors. In many European countries, you can’t change the sex marker on your paper if you are not sterile, thus you are required to have at least your ovaries removed. In the USA it varies from state to state, I don’t really know the situation. Some doctors preconize an hysto within the first years of testosterone therapy, since it is common for ftms on T to have cramps, pains etc… It also remove any risk of cancer or illness from this organ obviously, and since I don’t think studies have been done to try to see if long term T use can increase the risk of cancer, some people think we shouldn’t take risks with it. Not having anymore the “estrogen factory” also helps to masculinize further. There’s also for many ftms a great source of relief in the thinking that these female organs are no longer in them. And well, if you don’t have an hysto, it is generally said you have to see a gynecologist, to keep all that in check, and good luck for finding a ftm-friendly one. Plus many ftms are simply very uncomfortable seeing one, being that this speciality, well, it’s for women. So mentally wise, it’s not that great. There are also all the “normal” risks associated with having an hysto, or any surgery, and there’s the money problem, taking time off, so some ftms chose not to have one. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565/120 "2003-03-31T16:09:38Z")
I never treated any TS as if they were crazy. As for protection, thats what my comment on the bathroom was about. At the bars I used to go to, TS’s or anyone who looked “different” had to use the womens room,as men are more likely to wanna attack anyone who looked transgendered or transexual. Do you understand that? and I knew many queens who made humorous comment son hormone smaking them bitchy, therefore my comment above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-question/164565.md?page=7)