# Transsexual vs. transgender **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 26, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126 "2003-07-26T18:59:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/1 "2003-07-26T18:59:48Z")
I searched, and was quite surprised not to find a thread on this topic. Anyway, here goes: What is the difference between the words “transsexual” and “transgendered”? What connotations do they have? Do they have different factual meanings? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/2 "2003-07-26T19:02:39Z")
Well transsexuals are typically from Transylvania. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/3 "2003-07-26T19:06:38Z")
I mean sweet transvestites…on never mind… dammit! ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/4 "2003-07-26T19:16:18Z")
From [here](http://f.about.com/z/js/spr09sm.htm): > [@](#): > > A **transsexual** is a person who alters their physical appearance either by operation or hormones to become a member of the opposite sex. Transsexuals can be either female to male (FtM) or male to female (MtF) and are sometimes referred to as “post-opt” after surgery. > > A **transgender** person is one that crosses gender boundaries or a man or woman that adopts the attributes of the opposite sex. The sexual preference of a transgender person often varies. > > A **transvestite** is a man or woman that dresses in the clothing of the opposite sex. A transvestite is also known as a drag queen (a man who dresses in women’s clothing), a drag king (a woman who dresses in men’s clothing) or cross dresser. [Transsexual A brief definition of the syndrome](http://members.aol.com/ts1change/transsex.htm) asserts that sex refers to the physical while gender refers to the mental. [What Transsexuality Is: Definition, Cause, and History](http://transsexual.org/What.html) states: > [@](#): > > Gender Dysphoria, literally a misery with regard to gender, is the condition of being in a state of conflict between gender and physical sex. > > A transsexual is a person in which the sex-related structures of the brain that define gender identity are exactly opposite the physical sex organs of the body. Hmm…, I’m not sure I accept that. Do male to female transsexuals experience monthly hormonal cycles? The same site goes on to say: > [@](#): > > A recent term in usage is “Transgenderism”, essentially an empty word conjured up as a neutral label for any individual not conforming to common social rules of gender expression. The term was created to help unite very disparate individuals under a vague commonality of interest in gender, in order to provide a basis for mutual benefit and support within an often violently antagonistic society. > > Transgenderism can refer to those who crossdress, those who are intersexed, those who live in the opposite societal role of their physical sex, those who play with gender expression for any purpose whatsoever, and transsexuals as well. While there is potentially great survival benefit in this mutual association labeled as ‘transgenderism’, the primary function is social and political, and not clinical, despite the efforts of some to legitimize this essentially meaningless term. I think there might be some opinion involved. ---
**Author:** ![Yuki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@Yuki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yuki)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/5 "2003-07-26T19:22:07Z")
I believe that transsexuals are people of one gender who dress/act as the other gender. Transgenders are people who have undergone a full blown sex change. “When a straight man puts on a dress and gets his sexual kicks, he is a transvestite. When a man is a woman trapped in a man’s body, and has a little operation, he is a transsexual. When a gay man has WAY too much fashion sense for one gender, he is a drag queen.” – To Wong Foo: Thanks for everything, Julie Neumar ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/6 "2003-07-26T19:29:08Z")
> [@](#): > > A transsexual is a person who alters their physical appearance either by operation or hormones to become a member of the opposite sex. Transsexuals can be either female to male (FtM) or male to female (MtF) and are sometimes referred to as “post-opt” after surgery. Do they mean that only those who are post-op are transsexual? Are pre-op transsexuals by definition transgendered? That doesn’t sound quite right to me. Thanks for the informative links. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/7 "2003-07-26T20:02:15Z")
I’ll be interested to see what our transsexual Dopers have to say about this. In the meantime, here are the distinctions as I have seen them used and as I understand them best: **transvestite:** a person who dresses in clothing typically associated with the opposite gender. May be in preparation for (or in lieu of) sex-change surgery, or simply because one enjoys doing so for sexual pleasure or not. **transsexual:** a person who feels they they are actually the opposite gender of the body they were born with. May or may not have had sex-change surgery. **transgender:** I would see this as synonymous with “transsexual”; trying to draw a distinction as in the example **Monty** gave, I think, would be rather confusing. I would rather see people use the specific terms “intersexed,” “androgynous,” AIS, or whatever. Let’s not paint all sexuality/gender issues with such a broad brush. ---
**Author:** ![snac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@snac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snac)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/8 "2003-07-26T21:00:50Z")
A friend of mine was looking up info on whichever-you-choose-to-call-it (her nephew is in this category) and discovered that “transsexual” tends to be the term favored by porn sites and “transgendered” the term favored by non-porn sites. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/9 "2003-07-26T21:07:08Z")
I personally prefer “transgendered,” just because I find the term “transsexual” to be a bit intrusive and vulgar. I’m a middle-aged spinster lady, for goodness sake, I do not think of myself as “sexual!” I’m a woman, of course, but the term “-sexual” implies that I did what I did simply to indulge in wild orgies. Not that I didn’t _enjoy_ the wild orgies in my youth, mind you, but I find “transgendered” a friendlier and more circumspect term. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/10 "2003-07-26T23:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > A transvestite is a man or woman that dresses in the clothing of the opposite sex. A transvestite is also known as a drag queen (a man who dresses in women’s clothing), a drag king (a woman who dresses in men’s clothing) or cross dresser. I think the typical cross-dresser, who is a heterosexual male who dresses in women’s clothing usually in the privacy of his home, would object to being referred to as a “drag queen.” “Drag” has connotations which are IMHO totally different from the connotations of “transvestite” or “cross-dresser.” ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/11 "2003-07-27T01:58:42Z")
Transvestite/crossdresser is a person who wears the clothing of the opposite sex, e.g. women wearing mens shirts, men wearing womens blouses. The “degree” of how much clothing of the opposite sex you wear doesnt matter: wearing just one item of clothing will do it. Men still think they are men, and women still think they are women, they just happen to like wearing some articles of clothes that were designed and made for the opposite sex. A woman who wears mens boxer shorts or a man who wears panties is crossdressing/transvestite. This behavior is extremely common. Transexual: is a male or female who thinks they have the wrong body. They are transexual whether they have the operation or not, pre-op or post-op, doesnt matter. Transgender: is a male or female who “prefers” to dress, act, behave, “or” be perceived as someone of the opposite sex, part time or full time, but has no illusions of his or her correct sex and does not try to change it surgically even though he or she might entertain the thought of what it might be like to do it. The degree of transgender can vary. Full blown full time transgenders live full time as the opposite sex. Part timers, or those who are not totally fixated on it and have other things to do in life, simply enjoy whatever pleasures that taking on some of the attributes of the opposite sex has to offer, a ,male might wear blouses and take up knitting or other usually feminine behavior , a female might wear mens shirts and take up hunting or sports car driving or other masculine behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/12 "2003-07-27T02:02:59Z")
**Susanann** , where did you get those definitions? I just want to know if actual trans people have any say in this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/13 "2003-07-27T02:07:02Z")
**Eve** , I think she got them from that very special search engine, [www.analretrieval.com](http://www.analretrieval.com) for all your “answers pulled out of your ass” needs. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/14 "2003-07-27T02:14:58Z")
I’ve always wanted to be part of the GBLT community!!! I wear men’s shirts so when’s my toaster getting here? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/15 "2003-07-27T03:39:52Z")
As seen in just comparing the quotes/links I posted, which were all from trans friendly sites, there _is_ a bit of opinion involved. That thought has been reinforced by subsequent posts. Just like whether or not “tranny” is pejorative. **Otto** , I don’t know who might’ve written what down somewhere as a definition, but I’ve always associated “Drag Queen” with those who performed in the shows, or, at the least were sort of a little more “onstage” than everyone else at a club or a party. Is that kinda right (in you opinion, of course)? ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/16 "2003-07-27T10:13:55Z")
[http://content.gay.com/channels/home/trans\_stories/valerio\_max.html](http://content.gay.com/channels/home/trans_stories/valerio_max.html) “Why I’m not transgender” I share his view on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/17 "2003-07-27T11:08:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > Full blown full time transgenders live full time as the opposite sex. > > Part timers, or those who are not totally fixated on it and have other things to do in life, simply enjoy whatever pleasures that taking on some of the attributes of the opposite sex has to offer, a ,male might wear blouses and take up knitting or other usually feminine behavior , a female might wear mens shirts and take up hunting or sports car driving or other masculine behavior. A man is “transgendered” because he takes up knitting? I’m “transgendered” because I sometimes wear men’s flannel shirts while changing the oil on an airplane? _ **I don’t think so** _ You’re conflating activities that have _nothing_ to do with sex - either biological, mental, or that hot sweaty stuff with you with someone else - and sex and gender. This definition makes virtually _everyone_ “transgender” and thus dilutes the term into meaninglessness. Yes, I do have many traits considered “masculine” by our society, and many hobbies of that sort, but mentally and physically I am completely a woman, and sexually I am absolutely heterosexual. There’s nothing “trans” about my sexuality, despite my liking for the same toys the boys like to play with, and to shoehorn me into that category diminishes both me and those who genuinely ARE transsex/transgender. And the implication that those that are fulltime trans don’t “have other things to do with their life” is pretty insulting, too - I mean Eve doesn’t just put on a dress in the morning, sit in a corner, and look feminine. She’s obviously employed, socializes, goes shopping… in other words, does pretty much the things everyone else does. Heck, even a lot of born women wind up taking regular hormones by her age because of oopherectomies for various health reasons. By this definition a woman who has a hysterectomy is “transgendered”. Which is crap. She’s a woman, nothing “trans” about it. The fact she lacks a sexual organ she was born with and takes replacement hormones does not mean she has anything in common with a transsexual who now lacks a sexual organ she was born with and takes replacement hormones. This just does not make sense. I haven’t known a _lot_ of transgendered people, but to imply there is nothing in their life beyond a preoccupation with the matter is just as insulting as insisting born women have no purpose or interest beyond childbearing. They’re multi-dimensional _people_, not walking gender labels or social roles. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/18 "2003-07-27T13:34:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > \*\*I mean Eve doesn’t just put on a dress in the morning, sit in a corner, and look feminine. \*\* Well, I did _try_ that for awhile, but it is surprisingly difficult to pay the rent and buy groceries just doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/19 "2003-07-27T13:35:41Z")
What follows is my impressions, and I’ll be pleased to be corrected by someone who’s more informed, but I’ve formed the following concepts: People who could be described by one of the terms usually prefer “transgendered” rather than “transsexual” – which is more commonly used by the rest of us looking for a way to describe them. And this preference has to do with the fact that identifying as a woman or a man has to do less with sexual activity than with the entire rest of what gender roles and gender identity entail. Given that, however, “transgendered” refers to the interior mental state – while Joe may have XY chromosomes and a seven-inch penis, he _feels_ inside like he’s a woman, and identifies himself as one. “Transsexual” is used to denote those who _act_ on their interior sense, and undergo the difficult complex of psychological and hormonal therapy and sexual-reassignment surgery to become overtly a woman, to match the interior feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126/20 "2003-07-27T14:47:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > People who could be described by one of the terms usually prefer “transgendered” rather than “transsexual” – which is more commonly used by the rest of us looking for a way to describe them. And this preference has to do with the fact that identifying as a woman or a man has to do less with sexual activity than with the entire rest of what gender roles and gender identity entail. The last sentence is what I stumble over. What are “gender roles”? What is “gender identity”? I am female. My body is female. My mental space inside my head identifies as female. There is not question, and never has been, that I am a woman. But as soon as you throw gender roles into the mix the whole matter gets muddled. I was raised with gender roles for women that involve bearing and raising children. Knitting. Sewing. Shopping. Wearing dresses and pantyhose and make up and jewelry and high heels. Except for the knitting part, that’s not me _at all_. Am I somehow less a woman for not wanting to be the image of Harriet from _Ozzie and Harriet_ - vaccuming my perfect house in high heels and pearls before my breadwinner husband comes home? (The husband and I joke about being Ozzie and Harriet - he’s Harriet (minus the heels and pearls) and I’m Ozzie - being the main breadwinner and the one who works outside the home.) I don’t deviate a _little_ bit from the stereotypical female role in society, I deviate quite a lot. But I do not agree that this in anyway makes me a “defective” woman, or less of a woman. By lumping “gender roles” into “transgender”, though, I do get some sense of that happening. Maybe not from you directly, but there seems to be an underlying whisper of “you’re not _normal_, you’re not _right_, you’re not a _real_ woman”. I dunno, maybe Eve - who I assume has had to deal more thoroughly with these issues than I ever had to - would be better able to explain the difference between playing the stereotype of a women and actually _being_ a woman. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/transsexual-vs-transgender/191126.md?page=2)