# Trash talking your enemy on field radio during wars **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 22, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285 "2015-04-22T14:40:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dr\_zippermeyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dr\_zippermeyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_zippermeyer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/1 "2015-04-22T14:40:48Z")
I wonder how often soldier talk trash to their enemies with radio or other communications equipment. The cases I know: There was some years ago an article about pro-government Afghans and Talibans mocking each other constantly on radio waves. I once saw a documentary about a battle of one hill in Vietnam war. Vietkong radio man kept telling Americans how they will all soon perish and finally some US officer snapped and replied them. There was once an article about British fighter pilot in WWII how just for a sake of it said something rude on German frequencies. The rude reply followed immediately spoken in good English. From the biography of Hartmann I read that Soviet elite fighter squadron announced loudly their presence to Germans on radio. And on Beevor’s Berlin there was a mention that officers from Hitler’s bunker tried to call an HQ elsewhere in Berlin, but only answer was profanities by Russian soldiers who had overrun the place. Do you know other examples? I think the whole thing is a bit chilly, especially if you think of two fighter pilots talking while they have a duel that will most likely end in the dead of another. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/2 "2015-04-22T14:53:59Z")
**dr\_zippermeyer,** you posted this in General Questions. This is a serious forum, and many of us – me included – will be asking for cites for your claims. “The cases I know” doesn’t cut it. This doesn’t mean we disagree with you; we just want some proof of your assertions before we discuss them. So, what are your sources? ---
**Author:** ![dr\_zippermeyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dr\_zippermeyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_zippermeyer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/3 "2015-04-22T15:01:17Z")
I named two sources. I think I might be able to name others with industrious googling but is it really necessary as the examples are really not that hard to believe, are they? In any way, I meant the main question to be how popular “hobby” or even a tactic this was. The examples were there just on “did you know” basis. Maybe I could have put more emphasis on that main question. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/4 "2015-04-22T15:10:47Z")
I would think most militaries would strongly discourage anything like this. Communicating with your enemy, even to taunt him, carries a high risk of passing on some piece of useful intelligence. (“You think you’re tough? We’ll see how tough you are after we launch our surprise attack against your left flank tomorrow morning.”) Even if you say nothing useful, the mere fact that you are broadcasting reveals significant information. You’re telling your enemy where you have units with radios, which frequencies you’re using, and which of his radios you’re listening in on. ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/5 "2015-04-22T15:56:25Z")
While you are smack talking your enemy on the radio, they are triangulating on your position and calling in aircraft or artillery. Not smart. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/6 "2015-04-22T15:57:13Z")
Something like this occurred at the end of the so-called _Englandspiel_ (England game, aka _Unternehmen Nordpol,_ operation North Pole) in WWII. > [@](#): > > German forces captured Allied resistance agents operating in the Netherlands and used the agents’ codes to fool the Allies into continuing to provide the agents with information and supplies. > > As early as 1942, the operation in the Netherlands was penetrated by the German counter-espionage under Major Hermann Giskes of the Abwehr and continued under German control. > > Apprehended radio operators continued broadcasting encrypted messages, but without the required security checks, which should have alerted the SOE that they had been compromised. When the Germans suspected that their “game” was uncovered, they transmitted one last message to London, unencrypted: > [@](#): > > “To [the SOE section chiefs] Messrs Blunt, Bingham and Successors Ltd. > You are trying to make business in Netherlands without our assistance. We think this rather unfair in view of our long and successful co-operation as your sole agent. But never mind whenever you will come to pay a visit to the Continent you may be assured that you will be received with the same care and result as all those who you sent us before. So long.” > **[Englandspiel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englandspiel)** > > SOE needed professional intelligence officers at its head, as we had in the Abwehr, and in particular it needed men adept at subversive warfare. Instead they sent us infants, keen and willing, but quite unfitted for that kind of warfare. > Hermann Giskes, Abwehr, Netherlands Englandspiel ('England Game'), or Operation North Pole (German: Unternehmen Nordpol), was a successful counterintelligence operation of the Abwehr (German military intelligence) from 1942 to 1944 during World War II. German c... > **[Englandspiel](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englandspiel)** > > Das Englandspiel, auch Unternehmen Nordpol genannt, war der Deckname einer deutschen Militäroperation zur gemeinsamen Spionageabwehr der deutschen Abwehr und der Sicherheitspolizei im Zweiten Weltkrieg in den Niederlanden. Niederländische Agenten, die im Vereinigten Königreich von der Special Operations Executive (SOE) für Spionage und Sabotage ausgebildet worden waren, gerieten infolge dieser Operation in die Hände der Deutschen. Ihre Sendeanlagen wurden genutzt, um falsche Informationen nach Gr... ---
**Author:** ![iantendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@iantendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iantendo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/7 "2015-04-22T16:14:50Z")
I read about the Lutwaffe pilots flying over England and flirting with the WAAFs on the radio > **[Millions Like Us](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1HXCaSy3algC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22millions%2Blike%2Bus%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Osg3VbnfL5HYatycgZgC&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=amsel%20eins&f=false)** > > In Millions Like Us Virginia Nicholson tells the story of the women's Second World War, through a host of individual women's experiences. We tend to see the Second World War as a man's war, featuring Spitfire crews and brave deeds on the Normandy... ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/8 "2015-04-22T16:26:24Z")
Deliberate trash talking on the radio can also be a form of psychological warfare. One famous example would be the monotonous reading of two sentences: _Alle sieben Sekunden stirbt ein deutscher Soldat. Stalingrad, Massengrab_. (Every seven seconds, a German soldier dies. Stalingrad, mass grave), accompanied by the ticking of a clock. This message was transmitted on German radio frequencies, it served the double purpose of interfering with German communications as well as sending a chilling propaganda message. It sounded something like this (without the violins in the background): Edit: This was in WWII, during the battle of Stalingrad in 1942,1943. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/9 "2015-04-22T18:08:06Z")
It’s unprofessional. It’s also unsafe and unwise for reasons noted by **Little Nemo** & **JerrySTL**. There is a special group of people within the US military that conducts psy-ops. To the extent they do so, they communicate with the enemy in a way that complements the greater battle plan. Joe Snuffy infantryman being a smartass on the radio can inadvertently undermine that plan. Sass for its own sake is not done, and not tolerated by competent leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/10 "2015-04-22T18:19:10Z")
According to a reliable book I once read about the Yom Kippur War, as the Israelis began to turn the tide in the Sinai Desert, an Israeli commander (identified in the book, but I forgot his name) broadcast to the Egyptians something like “If any of you Egyptians can hear me, listen up you sons of bitches - your time is coming”. (Which indeed it was.) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/11 "2015-04-22T19:07:38Z")
> [@dr\_zippermeyer](#): > > I named two sources. I think I might be able to name others with industrious googling but is it really necessary as the examples are really not that hard to believe, are they? In any way, I meant the main question to be how popular “hobby” or even a tactic this was. The examples were there just on “did you know” basis. Maybe I could have put more emphasis on that main question. You may have _named_ sources, but you didn’t _cite_ any. Is it hard to believe? No, but for all I know, it might be an urban legend. Most urban legends are easy to believe, but that doesn’t make them true. If all you are looking for is _opinions_, GQ is the wrong forum. Try IMHO, just down the street a tad. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_zippermeyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dr\_zippermeyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_zippermeyer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/12 "2015-04-22T19:25:51Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > You may have _named_ sources, but you didn’t _cite_ any. Is it hard to believe? No, but for all I know, it might be an urban legend. Most urban legends are easy to believe, but that doesn’t make them true. > > If all you are looking for is _opinions_, GQ is the wrong forum. Try IMHO, just down the street a tad. Gosh, you sure sound grumpy today. 🙂 For me it seems like most of the members of this forum don’t follow formal academic practices on their discussions. Also, I don’t know where you got that opinion thing. To make it clear, the most desirable answer would be from someone who has been a radio operator himself - or friend / relative of one. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/13 "2015-04-22T19:26:43Z")
I recently read the book Chickenhawk, by Robert Mason. One of the anecdotes that he relates is that during his time flying helicopters in Vietnam, a (IIRC) Viet Cong general repeatedly radio’d “fuck you GI fuck you GI fuck you GI!” over and over again. They triangulated his location a couple of times, but by the time they got troops there the guy had disappeared. I can’t recall whether they eventually got him or not. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_zippermeyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dr\_zippermeyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_zippermeyer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/14 "2015-04-22T19:28:58Z")
> [@iantendo](#): > > I read about the Lutwaffe pilots flying over England and flirting with the WAAFs on the radio > > [Millions Like Us: Women's Lives in the Second World War - Virginia Nicholson - Google Books](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1HXCaSy3algC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22millions+like+us%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Osg3VbnfL5HYatycgZgC&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=amsel%20eins&f=false) Quite cheeky. 🙂 And like many have mentioned, it would be unprofessional to do such things in most cases. But put a 18 years old next to the radio for months or years and see what happens. Awful mistakes made by Enigma operators is a living proof that often things don’t happen by the book. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/15 "2015-04-22T19:50:54Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Sass for its own sake is not done, and not tolerated by competent leadership. [Nuts!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_McAuliffe#World_War_II) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/16 "2015-04-22T21:25:46Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > I recently read the book Chickenhawk, by Robert Mason. One of the anecdotes that he relates is that during his time flying helicopters in Vietnam, a (IIRC) Viet Cong general repeatedly radio’d “fuck you GI fuck you GI fuck you GI!” over and over again. They triangulated his location a couple of times, but by the time they got troops there the guy had disappeared. I can’t recall whether they eventually got him or not. On the radio everybody’s a general, but in real life there are a lot of enlisted men. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/17 "2015-04-22T22:08:35Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > [Nuts!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_McAuliffe#World_War_II) 😉 🙂 1. I meant _radio_ sass by the common ground pounder or similar, specifically, and 2. Generals in the field ARE the greater battle plan so… ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/18 "2015-04-22T23:32:15Z")
Back in WWII there was a lot of room for this as everybody used the same radio tech. By Viet Nam our gear and their gear were different enough that you couldn’t simply listen in to the enemy’s ops nor transmit to them. To be sure, both sides had captured enemy gear and dedicated listening posts & some amount of planned PsyOps. But Joe average soldier or pilot or boat driver didn’t have the gear to talk to the enemy on his freq even if he wanted top. And jabbering on your own operational freqs in the hopes that the bad guys were listening & would get the message too was not smart & really frowned upon by the leadership. Not to mention by all the other friendlies on the freq. With modern anti-jam and encrypted comm, say post 1990, you still assume the bad guys can hear, but it’s a damn good bet they can’t really. So unless you have captured enemy gear to talk on, it \*really \*ain’t gonna work. Last of all, with very recent combat against mostly irregulars you’re dealing with an enemy that’s using cellphones and civil walkie talkies of all sorts. And you’re fighting an enemy that’s not nearly as comm-intensive as we are. Still hard for generic somebody on our side with a mike to bust into the enemy comm network (such as it is) & say something impolite. No matter how tempting it might be. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/19 "2015-04-23T00:11:29Z")
During WW2, the telegraph operators would on occasion send an obscene message down the wire to wake Island and beyond, since the Japanese didn’t cut the cable connection between the islands. The Japanese would sometimes respond. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285/20 "2015-04-23T00:36:38Z")
Aside from other concerns, radios get provided to talk to certain people on designated network. There’s no call waiting or missed call notification if you are out frequency surfing. If you are talking smack to the other guys you aren’t able to talk to who you need to talk to. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trash-talking-your-enemy-on-field-radio-during-wars/718285.md?page=2)