# Travel ban: Oh for two **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281 "2017-03-16T02:26:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/61 "2017-03-17T04:27:07Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > It was great for me, not for the judge, who is letting his liberal-ingrained, inbred cousin-fucking heritage running through his blood fester and show itself through his activist decisions. > [@ckalli1998](#): > > You know, Johnny Ace, I’m beginning to think that this Hawaiian judge was just staying true to his inbred, familial heritage. > > HRC won Hawaii by 32 points, after all. There is a strong current of liberalism in that island state. > > In other words, he disgracefully allowed partisan politics to influence his decision. Dial it back. This type of rhetoric is a hair shy of what I would consider racially motivated insults. It’s also unnecessarily inflammatory. > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Your right-wing whining makes me laugh at you. This gets an honorable mention that these kind of point and laugh type posts aren’t too far away from trolling. Please refrain. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/62 "2017-03-17T04:31:48Z")
I didn’t mention the judge’s race at all, in fact I didn’t even know it when I posted my comments (I just found out now that he’s Asian). However, they weren’t meant to be racially derogatory in any way, I’m a minority myself. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/63 "2017-03-17T04:32:49Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You don’t get this? Because what you are saying is that it’s ok for Trump to legally discriminate against Muslims, tear families apart, cause people to lose their jobs, suffer detention at the borders and much more, in order to solve a “problem” that doesn’t exist. I am 100% certain that **John Mace** isn’t saying anything of the sort. It’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise. > [@](#): > > Please, cite me to _any_ evidence you’ve got to show that his EOs will in any way address the fantasy problem of terrorism in this country caused by legal immigrants and/or refugees. Before you answer, remember that the orders apply to only 7 countries from where **no one** has killed a US citizen on US soil, whether immigrant or refugee. You don’t get this? **You** made the claim that Executive orders “must address an actual problem”, and you have been completely unable to provide a single cite. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/64 "2017-03-17T04:38:23Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > In this case, the judge should’ve focused on the strict wording of the statute (the executive order), and ruled that it was not an unconstitutional Muslim ban. Disgracefully, the judge refused. Your blind support for Trump is disgraceful. The judge is doing their job as they see the law, even if they are wrong there is nothing disgraceful about it. And trying to “shame” the judiciary in this fashion is something that only a fascist would want to do. The independence of the judiciary is a crucial part of the US system and essential to democracy. Why do you hate America? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/65 "2017-03-17T04:44:01Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > It was great for me, not for the judge, who is letting his liberal-ingrained, inbred cousin-fucking heritage running through his blood fester and show itself through his activist decisions. [QUOTE=ckalli1998] I didn’t mention the judge’s race at all, in fact I didn’t even know it when I posted my comments (I just found out now that he’s Asian). However, they weren’t meant to be racially derogatory in any way, I’m a minority myself. [/QUOTE] You apparently have no idea how close the hole you’re digging is getting to China. Do yourself a favor and, in all seriousness, shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/66 "2017-03-17T04:56:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > You apparently have no idea how close the hole you’re digging is getting to China. Do yourself a favor and, in all seriousness, shut the fuck up. This is a warning for use of inappropriate language for this forum. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/67 "2017-03-17T05:03:11Z")
Really, I could’ve been warned for a series of other comments, but that was an actual, serious piece of advice. But OK, point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/68 "2017-03-17T05:26:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I am 100% certain that **John Mace** isn’t saying anything of the sort. It’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise. I didn’t say he was saying anything of the sort. What I pointed out was that this is the practical result of holding the position he appears to hold. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You don’t get this? **You** made the claim that Executive orders “must address an actual problem”, and you have been completely unable to provide a single cite. Again, not everything is written into the Constitution. If you’d read the 9th Circuit’s and District Court judge’s rulings to which I cited you earlier in the discussion, you’d have seen where the requirement certainly was of importance to those rulings. In both instances, the judges cited case law on the “actual problem” issue as a basis for their decisions, among others. You _do_ understand that case law is as valid as Constitutional and/or legislative law in rendering decisions and opinions, right? The case law cited in those rulings _was_ my cite. Sorry you missed that. You can argue that the rulings may not ultimately withstand the scrutiny of SCOTUS as it applies to the invalid nature of Trump’s orders, and you’re right about that. But if or until a final ruling is rendered by SCOTUS, it appears that the judges who have ruled to date believe – and cite the case law for their belief – that addressing an actual problem is indeed a component of the invalidity of Trump’s EOs. And unless and until SCOTUS disagrees with them, their rulings are the only guidance we have on the “actual problem” issue. If you disagree with the case law cited by the 9th Circuit and District Court judge in support of their rulings, by all means, feel free to point out the flaws in their reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/69 "2017-03-17T05:48:55Z")
Not an Elections discussion. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/70 "2017-03-17T07:04:41Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You don’t get this? Because what you are saying is that it’s ok for Trump to legally discriminate against Muslims, tear families apart, cause people to lose their jobs, suffer detention at the borders and much more, in order to solve a “problem” that doesn’t exist. > > Please, cite me to _any_ evidence you’ve got to show that his EOs will in any way address the fantasy problem of terrorism in this country caused by legal immigrants and/or refugees. Before you answer, remember that the orders apply to only 7 countries from where **no one** has killed a US citizen on US soil, whether immigrant or refugee. > > The orders are temporary, for only 120 days except for Syrian refugees. Since the 1980 Refugee Act, _no one_ has been killed by a refugee or immigrant from any of the named countries – including Syria. > > As **Guinastasia** pointed out, Saudi Arabia is not on the list, from where 9 of the 9/11 terrorists came. Neither is Egypt, the UAE, or Lebanon. Nor is Pakistan – from where the one legal immigrant/terrorist arrived who killed people in San Bernardino. And please note that Iraq is also excluded from EO #2. > > I guess our existing vetting processes are working well. So again: What problem is being “solved” by Trump’s EOs? And you seriously think solving this non-existent problem is reasonable, despite the massive amount of despair and confusion inflicted on the nation as a whole as a result of EO #1? > > I understand EO #1 is Trump’s choice to appeal to the SCOTUS. I do hope so. It’s indefensible. FWIW, the Ohio State attacker was a Somali refugee. True, he didn’t manage to _kill_ anybody, but 11 people were injured, and I don’t believe that non-fatal terrorist attacks are a “non-existent problem”. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/71 "2017-03-17T08:10:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > He managed to get a version of “many people are saying” into his ‘rebuttal.’ [who?] [citation needed] ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/72 "2017-03-17T08:32:36Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Do you think it should be relevant if the creator of a bill explicitly says that it is meant as an end-run around the constitution, as a weaker version of something which _is_ blatantly unconstitutional? ^Hey ckalli, you never got around to answering that. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/73 "2017-03-17T08:34:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > ^Hey ckalli, you never got around to answering that. I believe in textualism, focusing on the words and meaning of the statute’s text when interpreting its constitutionality, not intemperate campaign statements ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/74 "2017-03-17T08:50:55Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I believe in textualism, focusing on the words and meaning of the statute’s text when interpreting its constitutionality, not intemperate campaign statements Bollocks. You believe in whatever is convenient that suits your “side” at the time. If the situation was reversed and it was some executive action put forward by a Democratic President getting blocked because of the intent behind it you’d be cheering the Judge on. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/75 "2017-03-17T08:56:32Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I believe in textualism, focusing on the words and meaning of the statute’s text when interpreting its constitutionality, not intemperate campaign statements All right. I disagree, and I do so based in no small part on intelligent design. See, it would be easy to miss the unconstitutional part of statutes that push intelligent design in schools, or which attempt to call evolution into question in school books if all we were examining were the text of the statutes. But if you look beyond that statutes themselves, it becomes blatantly obvious that what is going on is people sneaking religious doctrine into public schools. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/76 "2017-03-17T09:00:51Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I believe in textualism, focusing on the words and meaning of the statute’s text when interpreting its constitutionality, not intemperate campaign statements And that’s why you agree that **Roe v. Wade** was rightly decided, since it was based on a plain textual reading of the Fourth Amendment. Right? ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/77 "2017-03-17T09:08:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that’s why you agree that **Roe v. Wade** was rightly decided, since it was based on a plain textual reading of the Fourth Amendment. > > Right? No, Roe v. Wade was based on an invented “right to privacy”, a right never suggested by the Constitution’s original public meaning when ratified; a reasonable person alive during the Constitution’s ratification would have also come to the conclusion that the Constitution says nothing about abortion, much less there being a special “right” to it. Textualism is a cousin of originalism, but there not the same thing; textualism is a philosophy used when interpreting statutes and laws passed by elected officials, while originalism is a philosophy saying that when judging something’s constitutionality you should look to the original meaning of the text of the Constitution and see whether anything in that something violates the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/78 "2017-03-17T09:16:08Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I guess the Hawaiian judge was too dense to realize it. Federal judge. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/79 "2017-03-17T09:17:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Mike Huckabee suggests](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/huckabee-trump-ignore-judge-travel-ban-jackson-trail-tears) that Trump ignore the judge’s ruling – citing (get this) motherfucking _Andrew Jackson_, who went ahead with ethnic cleansing (also known as the Trail of Tears) against the rulings of the SCOTUS. > > So yes, at least one prominent Republican is now defending ethnic cleansing. Of course he has no problems with ethnic cleansing. During the campaign, one of Trump’s flacks even pointed to the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War Two as justification for a ban on Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2017, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281/80 "2017-03-17T10:08:19Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > It was great for me, not for the judge, who is letting his liberal-ingrained, inbred cousin-fucking heritage running through his blood fester and show itself through his activist decisions. It’s entirely possible that the judge disagrees with Trump legitimately and honestly. Trump is a human being, after all – I’m sure it’s hard for some Trump supporters to accept, but it’s possible that Trump might sometimes be wrong about something and a judge or someone else who disagrees might be right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travel-ban-oh-for-two/782281.md?page=5)