# Travesty on Final Jeopardy 2/5/2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 6, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637 "2014-02-06T03:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JacksMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/839c29/32.png) [@JacksMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacksMom)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/21 "2014-02-06T08:53:36Z")
Jim, I jumped off the couch and yelled at Alex for accepting ‘What is Ag?’ And my husband reacted much the same way everyone else has. Probably because he knew it was Ag but didn’t remember what it symbolized and thought he should still get credit. Never! And yes, this was a very difficult set of clues. I felt very average by the end. It’s been a while since Jeopardy was consistently challenging, and it’s been a great fun. I’m thinking this entire return of the 80s series will be much the same. Also…wasn’t it just last year that some kid from Conn. Didn’t get credit for his answer because he **added one letter** to the word? I think it was ‘emancipation’ and he write ‘emancipatation’ or something similar. So two letters IIRC. Even so, it’s still obvious what he meant and he was maybe 12 years old. So are they harder on the kids than the adults? ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/22 "2014-02-06T10:43:57Z")
Bahimes: both answers were phrased in the form of a question, Both ruled correct. The Ag guy had more money at the end. Jacksmom: I remember that kid. I think his misspelling altered the meaning or something. I think there might have been a thread on it somewhere here. Given the low scores by the end, I think the contestants found it difficult as well. BTW - jumping off the couch and yelling - confirmation bias. Sweet! ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/23 "2014-02-06T10:55:15Z")
This is a tough one. If the answer was, “This covers 71% of the Earth’s surface”, both “What is H2O?” and “What is water?” would be acceptable because H2O is commonly accepted as a synonym for water. If the answer was “This liquid with the chemical formula H2O covers 71% of the Earth’s surface”, “What is H2O?” would not be acceptable even though H2O is commonly accepted as a synonym for water. I think most would agree with me here. “This element’s symbol” is separating the symbol from the word the symbol is used to symbolize. I agree with the OP, but I don’t think it’s as cut and dried as the examples above. > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > You can read that as either “(this element’s) symbol comes first” and the answer would be silver or “(this element’s symbol) comes first” and the answer would be Ag. I don’t think the latter works with the apostrophe. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/24 "2014-02-06T11:41:10Z")
It seem ridiculous to me to accept the answer Ag. Forget the qualifying clause in the question and make the question, “Of the elements this element’s symbol comes second alphabetically.” How could Ag be an answer to this question? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/25 "2014-02-06T12:51:53Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > Ag is the elemental symbol for silver. so i would go for the word as being correct. the element was answered for. I agree. I’d be much more upset if the “Ag” guy had been scored wrong. FWIW, this is what could happen on a game show when the judges get too anal: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/7g6pwugSL2E/hqdefault.jpg "Match Game '77: School House Riot") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g6pwugSL2E) ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/26 "2014-02-06T13:16:23Z")
Was the guy who won that guy who has been going for the big money questions first, trying systematically to find the Daily Doubles? His manner has also irked Treveck a bit, from what I’ve read… ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/27 "2014-02-06T13:28:38Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Was the guy who won that guy who has been going for the big money questions first, trying systematically to find the Daily Doubles? His manner has also irked Treveck a bit, from what I’ve read… No, that guy is on hiatus while they do the ‘Battle of the Decades’ bringing back big winners from the different decades the show has been on the air. This week is The 80s. ETA: And I agree with the OP, I wouldn’t have accepted that answer. I wonder if the Judges discuss these kinds of possibilities ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/28 "2014-02-06T13:30:34Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Was the guy who won that guy who has been going for the big money questions first, trying systematically to find the Daily Doubles? His manner has also irked Treveck a bit, from what I’ve read… Last night’s game was part of the Decades of Champions series. You’re thinking of Arthur Chu, who won’t be back until this championship special concludes. And I’m in the OP’s camp on this one. Were I a judge, I would have required that the answer be “silver” and not “Ag” (or, in the case of last night’s winner, “AG” - which is wrong because element symbols always have only one capital letter, not two.). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/29 "2014-02-06T13:49:02Z")
Is Ag an element? Yes. It asked for which element and did not state that the answer had to be given as the word or the symbol version of that element. Just to name the element. “Ag” does that exctly the same as “silver” does. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/30 "2014-02-06T13:59:41Z")
Also, this week is “The Battle of the '80’s” yet every contestant I’ve seen has been from the 1990’s. Any idea why this is? ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/31 "2014-02-06T14:10:55Z")
Just looked up Ag in an online dictionary. It says Ag is a symbol for the element silver. So it appears that Ag is _not_ an element but the symbol for an element, as was indicated in the clue. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/32 "2014-02-06T14:11:07Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Also, this week is “The Battle of the '80’s” yet every contestant I’ve > seen has been from the 1990’s. Any idea why this is? Well, Chuck Forrest, who won Monday night, won the Tournament of Champions in 1986. I haven’t been paying attention to the dates Alex or Johnny say they were on - maybe they are giving special tournament dates? ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/33 "2014-02-06T14:14:12Z")
The travesty was that the game was so painfully slow I stopped watching it. I rarely turn off Jeopardy! but my clothes were going out of style. Jeopardy! started in the mid-80s, so their definition of decade is the first 10 years the show was on. I think it started in 82, so the first decade would be 82-92. Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/34 "2014-02-06T14:18:26Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Just looked up Ag in an online dictionary. It says Ag is a symbol for the > element silver. So it appears that Ag is _not_ an element but the > symbol for an element, as was indicated in the clue. And “silver” is the word for the element Ag. Neither is the element; they are ways to name the element. You start to get into Magrittish “This is not a pipe” territory. It is silliness. “Ag” is a representation for the element also represented with the word “silver” and an acceptable, in some circles preferable, way to represent that element. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/35 "2014-02-06T14:20:24Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Just looked up Ag in an online dictionary. It says Ag is a symbol for the > element silver. So it appears that Ag is _not_ an element but the > symbol for an element, as was indicated in the clue. Well neither is silver an element; it’s the name of an element. There’s a difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.[/Feynman] 🙂 I can see the argument for excluding Ag as an answer. Probably the problem is that the clue should have been worded more precisely. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/36 "2014-02-06T15:21:38Z")
This reminds me of the Cliff Claven’s FJ answer on Cheers: “Who are three guys who have never been in my kitchen?” (I know I probably misquoted it, the point is, it’s technically correct, but it’s NOT correct.) Me: “What is the metal whose name is the same word as the first two syllables of the surname of the comedienne/actress who had a cable special with the title “Jesus is Magic”?” Alex: “That’s also correct!!” ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/37 "2014-02-06T15:23:44Z")
Crap. That last post of mine certainly didn’t work as well as I hoped. When a clue states “Of the elements whose symbols don’t match their English names, this element’s symbol comes first alphabetically” and the clue specifically mentions “their English names”, it seems reasonable to suppose that it is asking for the name of the element. Let’s reword slightly. “Of the elements whose symbols don’t match their English names, the symbol _of this element_ comes first alphabetically.” “Of this element” certainly seems to be asking for the name of the element and not its symbol. They are two separate things. I think this is verging on silliness as well. The thing is, are we going to be rigorous with our language use or not? To me, what is keeping this from verging completely into silliness is the fact that quite a lot of money is riding on these silly distinctions. I don’t mean just this particular Jeopardy game. Hell, Modern Art (I guess that’s supposed to be capitalized, huh?) has been pretty much a “Whoosh” to me since I first learned anything about it. But when said art is sold for millions of dollars, when galleries around the world compete for the privilege of displaying said art and the artwork is held up as examples of various things, states, viewpoints every day around the world by varying and disparate people, perhaps then when the artist creates a painting of a pipe with the statement “This is not a pipe”, maybe, just maybe we should take him/her at their word. (Hey, don’t blame me, I didn’t bring up Magritte) (no smilie) And borschevsky - fake quoting Feynman against me? That’s low. 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/38 "2014-02-06T16:24:58Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > What would have been a REAL travesty would be if one of them drew a picture of the Lone Ranger atop a horse, with an arrow pointing to the horse, and they accepted THAT. That would indeed be a real travesty. It’s not a drawing in the form of a question :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/39 "2014-02-06T16:27:46Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > And borschevsky - fake quoting Feynman against me? That’s low. 🙂 🙂 It’s not a fake quotation: [http://www.haveabit.com/feynman/2](http://www.haveabit.com/feynman/2) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/40 "2014-02-06T16:31:50Z")
**NB:** The symbol for silver is Ag, not AG, which is what the contestant wrote. Surprised no one here has mentioned that, SFAICS. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637.md?page=3)