# Travesty on Final Jeopardy 2/5/2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 6, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637 "2014-02-06T03:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/101 "2014-02-07T19:43:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because bolding removed the ambiguity by either combing the words together or not. > I did. There are several ways to say the same thing. I chose one. You didn’t answer and you didn’t answer my further questions to you: _If it’s ambiguous, what other meaning do you think it can have other than “the symbol of this element”? Do you think it can also mean “this element symbol”? Again, if so, than “silver” could never have been deemed correct. If something else, what?_ ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/102 "2014-02-07T19:47:47Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You didn’t answer and you didn’t answer my further questions to you: > > _If it’s ambiguous, what other meaning do you think it can have other than “the symbol of this element”? Do you think it can also mean “this element symbol”? Again, if so, than “silver” could never have been deemed correct. If something else, what?_ Since your premise (namely, “Then I don’t know why you bothered separating it in bold **and declaring that the answer is “Silver” and not "silver and Ag.** ”) is wrong, I don’t understand the question. You may restate it if you like. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/103 "2014-02-07T19:55:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Since your premise (namely, “Then I don’t know why you bothered separating it in bold **and declaring that the answer is “Silver” and not "silver and Ag.** ”) is wrong, I don’t understand the question. You may restate it if you like. It’s not a premise; it’s me stating I don’t know what your motivation for doing something is. I’ll start over. > [@Terr](#): > > I don’t think so. It didn’t ask for an element’s name. Depending on how you chose to understand it, it either asked for “element”, or “element’s symbol”. As in either: > > Of the elements whose symbols don’t match their English names, this **element** ’s symbol comes first alphabetically > > or > > Of the elements whose symbols don’t match their English names, this **element’s symbol** comes first alphabetically > > Ag is the answer to either of the questions. Silver is the answer to the first one only. You say, “Ag is the answer to either of the questions. Silver is the answer to the first one only.” When you say “silver is the answer to the first one only”, do you mean that silver is the only answer, or might Ag wok also? How does “this **element** ’s symbol” differ from "this **element’s symbol**? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/104 "2014-02-07T19:58:34Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You say, “Ag is the answer to either of the questions. Silver is the answer to the first one only.” > > When you say “silver is the answer to the first one only”, do you mean that silver is the only answer, or might Ag wok also? What do you think “Ag is the answer to either of the questions” means? > [@](#): > > How does “this **element** ’s symbol” differ from "this **element’s symbol**? One asks for “element”. The other asks for “element’s symbol”. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/105 "2014-02-07T20:01:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What do you think “Ag is the answer to either of the questions” means? I’ll ask again. If you don’t want to answer, I’ll give up. When you say “silver is the answer to the first one only”, do you mean that silver is the only answer, or might Ag work also? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/106 "2014-02-07T20:07:29Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I’ll ask again. If you don’t want to answer, I’ll give up. > > When you say “silver is the answer to the first one only”, do you mean that silver is the only answer, or might Ag work also? Of COURSE Ag will work also. Now answer my question: what do you think the sentence “Ag is the answer to either of the questions” means? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/107 "2014-02-07T20:27:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of COURSE Ag will work also. Pardon me for not realizing that. You wrote: _Ag is the answer to either of the questions. Silver is the answer to the first one only._ I guess I should have known to interpret that as _Ag is the answer to either of the questions. Silver **and Ag** is the answer to the first one only._? I simply asked and I think with good reason. Not sure why this is getting you so perturbed. > [@](#): > > Now answer my question: what do you think the sentence “Ag is the answer to either of the questions” means? There aren’t too many other ways to rephrase that any better. Why do you think I don’t know what that means? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/108 "2014-02-07T20:29:45Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > There aren’t too many other ways to rephrase that any better. Why do you think I don’t know what that means? Because then you wouldn’t be asking if Ag “might work” for the first question. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/109 "2014-02-07T20:38:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because then you wouldn’t be asking if Ag “might work” for the first question. You’re right (I think). My brain is starting to hurt going back and keeping track of all these posts. Sorry for wasting your time on this. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/110 "2014-02-07T20:40:08Z")
The Carrollian “name of the song is called” discussion is interesting, but possibly beside the point. The point of Jeopardy rules and rulings, surely, is to _make sure the contestant really does know the answer_. Thus, “emmancipation” might be accepted where “emancipatation” would be rejected—because the first, misspelled though it is, shows that the contestant knows that EMANCIPATION is the called-for answer. But the “emancipatation” response does not demonstrate that the contestant knows the called-for answer. The judges ruled incorrectly on the Silver/Ag question, for the reason mentioned by a couple of people already: the “AG”-writing contestant might have been faking it. He might, for example (as discussed earlier) have known that “Ag” was the first non-matching symbol, but have been cloudy on what element the Ag represents. The judges’ decision violates the “make sure the contestant really does know the answer” guiding principle behind Jeopardy rules. The OP is right. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/111 "2014-02-07T21:04:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of course you would. So would I. Because the answer is in the question. Now if Ag wasn’t in the question (hard to think of a question where it’s the only answer but: “This element is a metal that has been used as currency, making mirrors and photography”, “Ag” would be a perfectly valid answer. I’m not entirely sure I would accept “Ag,” but let’s say I did. That is not a question that is making a distinction between an element and a symbol. A question that mentions both, in my opinion, is asking for “silver” with the “element” part and “Ag” for the symbol part. And, as **Sherrerd** points out, it’s not impossible that the person knew “Ag” as a symbol but wasn’t sure what it stood for. Is it silver? Or is it mercury? Or gold? Once again, I’m fine with the ruling, but I would not be outraged if they only accepted “silver,” as that is what my reading of the question is looking for. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/112 "2014-02-07T21:49:56Z")
> [@Pasta](#): > > **jimbuff314** : If the clue were, “This element has an atomic number of 47,” would you accept “Ag” as a valid answer? Absolutely. (especially after this thread :)) To me, that does not involve a distinction between an element’s name and symbol. Either would be acceptable. Also, sorry about screwing up the clue. I should have checked Tivo again. (Oh yes, this Jeopardy episode is going to be on there for a while.) ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/113 "2014-02-07T21:52:41Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I think the OP needs to recalibrate their Travesty Meter. Note to self: delete the word travesty from your vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/114 "2014-02-07T22:01:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And “silver” is not an element, but an English name for one. Wow. And _I’m_ the one who’s been labeled a “hyper-pedant”. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/115 "2014-02-07T22:04:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And “silver” is not an element, but an English name for one. In what language was the Jeopardy! program broadcast? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/116 "2014-02-07T22:08:26Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Wow. And _I’m_ the one who’s been labeled a “hyper-pedant”. Well if one says that “Ag” is not an element than neither is “silver”. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/117 "2014-02-07T22:15:17Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Wow. And _I’m_ the one who’s been labeled a “hyper-pedant”. You’re taking the statement out of context. As a response, it makes sense: [QUOTE=K364] Because Ag is a symbol, not an element. [/QUOTE] > [@Terr](#): > > And “silver” is not an element, but an English name for one. The point being made is that if Ag is not an element but a symbol, then silver is not an element but a word. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/118 "2014-02-07T22:49:21Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Absolutely. (especially after this thread :)) To me, that does not involve a distinction between an element’s name and symbol. Either would be acceptable. The distinction between name and symbol is for the purpose of determining the element. The element _Aardvarkian_, with symbol Vk, would not have been the answer, even though Aardvarkian is alphabetically before Ag. The occurrences of “element symbols” and of “element’s symbols” were both for specifying that only the symbols were being alphabetized. The question asked for the element, and did not specify “element’s name” for the answer. ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/119 "2014-02-07T23:33:01Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Also, this week is “The Battle of the '80’s” yet every contestant I’ve > seen has been from the 1990’s. Any idea why this is? Spouse and I conjectured that the first 10 years were 1984-1994 hence this series features people of the ‘‘80’s’’ decade. [BTW, I thought the answer discussed above should have been ‘‘silver’’. I also think the symbol is “Ag” and not “AG”.] ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637/120 "2014-02-07T23:45:19Z")
> [@janeslogin](#): > > [BTW, I thought the answer discussed above should have been ‘‘silver’’. I also think the symbol is “Ag” and not “AG”.] you think right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/travesty-on-final-jeopardy-2-5-2014/680637.md?page=7)