# Treasure Hunters 7/17 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 18, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951 "2006-07-18T01:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/21 "2006-07-18T15:22:25Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] Did I miss any good histrionics from Kayte, while someone else was doing the actual work, of course? [/QUOTE] Why yes, yes she did! While her dad was digging his eleventy-third hole, she kept telling him to go dig somewhere else. He said that he would, after he was done with the hole he was digging … that had an “artifact” at the bottom! Damn good thing he didn’t listen to her. [hijack] The way I see it, Mom and Dad Fogal put up with Kayte because they made her the way she is - at least somewhat. So, to admit that their daughter is a horribly whiny wench would reflect poorly on them.[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/22 "2006-07-18T15:36:24Z")
[QUOTE=rockle] Based on what I remember of the clue – that it was a non-native-born Revolutionary War hero, and something about American soil – and also based on the fact that Paris was pictured in the previews, I’ll bet it’s [Lafayette](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Lafayette). One of the only things I remember about early American history is that the Marquis had a bunch of dirt from Bunker Hill shipped back to France, so that he could be buried “in” American soil. [/QUOTE] It’s definitely Lafeyette. One of the portraits they showed on-screen is the same as the one from the Wikipedia article (it’s also on the stamp toward the bottom). ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Gates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b782af/32.png) [@Ben\_Gates](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Gates)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/23 "2006-07-18T16:19:33Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] It’s definitely Lafeyette. One of the portraits they showed on-screen is the same as the one from the Wikipedia article (it’s also on the stamp toward the bottom). [/QUOTE] No way, dude. It’s totally one of Lafeyette’s men: > **[Casimir Pulaski](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Pu%C5%82aski)** > > Kazimierz Michał Władysław Wiktor Pułaski (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Polish: \[kaˈʑimjɛʂ puˈwaskʲi\] ⓘ; March 4 or 6, 1745\[a\]  – October 11, 1779), anglicised as Casimir Pulaski (/ˈkæzɪmɪər pəˈlæski/ KA-zi-meer pə-LAS-kee), was a Polish nobleman,\[b\] soldier, and military commander who has been called "The Father of American c... Fort Pulaski… killed in the Battle of Savannah… rumored to have been buried nearby but the body’s never been found… they were digging for PULASKI! From the article According to several contemporary witnesses, including Pułaski’s aide-de-camp, he was buried at sea. A long-standing rumor, however, has it that the wounded Pułaski was actually taken to Greenwich plantation near Savannah, where he died and was buried. In 2004, an eight-year examination of remains buried at the plantation ended inconclusively. –Ben Gates ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/24 "2006-07-18T16:23:28Z")
They said the dead guy died in 1834. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Gates](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b782af/32.png) [@Ben\_Gates](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Gates)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/25 "2006-07-18T16:26:15Z")
Did they? I missed that if they did. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/26 "2006-07-18T16:33:49Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] Did I miss any good histrionics from Kayte, while someone else was doing the actual work, of course? [/QUOTE] Yep. While Dad was doing all the work, Mom asked Princess to hold the flashlight for him. Her cry: “I hate this job! I don’t want to hold a flashlight! [stompstompstomp]”. Dad’s and Mom’s faces were silently saying “Please turn the camera off so we can go upside her head with this shovel, okay? Please do that for us, Mr. Cameraman?” Then there was her doing nothing in the theater except insist constantly that the mirrors were a distraction. Even Mom said on-camera that “if she’d just have shut up for a little, Dad could have figured that one out a lot sooner”. Give Mom credit for not actually getting in Dad’s way on this show, at least. Kayte? I just wonder what she’s thinking as she watches back. Maybe it’ll do her some good. I was expecting the Miss USA’s to provide the drama-queen quota for this show. But they’re all as gung-ho as anyone, despite their spell of exhaustion during the digging challenge. They pulled it back together and got it done. Gotta bet on Air Force to win - they’re both the smartest and the luckiest team so far. Digging up the mask in 10 minutes? Come on now. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/27 "2006-07-18T16:43:11Z")
[QUOTE=Ben Gates] No way, dude. It’s totally one of Lafeyette’s men: > **[Casimir Pulaski](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Pu%C5%82aski)** > > Kazimierz Michał Władysław Wiktor Pułaski (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Polish: \[kaˈʑimjɛʂ puˈwaskʲi\] ⓘ; March 4 or 6, 1745\[a\]  – October 11, 1779), anglicised as Casimir Pulaski (/ˈkæzɪmɪər pəˈlæski/ KA-zi-meer pə-LAS-kee), was a Polish nobleman,\[b\] soldier, and military commander who has been called "The Father of American c... Fort Pulaski… killed in the Battle of Savannah… rumored to have been buried nearby but the body’s never been found… they were digging for PULASKI! [/QUOTE] Nope. Definitely not Pulaski. Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/28 "2006-07-18T16:49:39Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Yep. While Dad was doing all the work, Mom asked Princess to hold the flashlight for him. Her cry: “I hate this job! I don’t want to hold a flashlight! [stompstompstomp]”. [/QUOTE] Inside Casa Drae, the reply to that was “Then shut the ^$\*# up and _you_ can dig.” I almost feel sorry for Brad–however long they were digging, he did all the damn work. I say “almost,” because then I remember that no matter how much she grates on him, he’s partially responsible for her turning out that way. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/29 "2006-07-18T16:50:21Z")
The Fogals are turning into Chip and Kim with an extra dose of Colin. He does all the work, she stays out of his way giving encouragement, and Kayte screams at things. I think after 5 hours doing anything I would be so happy to finish the task, but I noticed that no one seemed to get the idea to take shifts to rest. We kept seeing two people standing and one person digging, or one person standing, and two people diggindg, one with their hands. If I heard that the people were doing something for 5 hours, I’d start immediately in on prepping for the long run. One digger, one spotter and one rester who will be the next digger and run in short shifts like 10-15 minutes. In 5 hours(4.5), each would have only dug for 1.5 hours. And lastly, I cannot believe that there wasn’t a way to figure out where to dig. I was kinda hoping the Genuii would have showed up and figured something out. Kind of a let down for this show. Go Southies, Go AirForce ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/30 "2006-07-18T16:53:07Z")
I had a college professor who did consulting work examining outdoor crime scenes for the local sheriff’s office. He showed us some of the tricks he used, like keeping track of when particular species of trees lost their leaves, so, if you knew when the crime took place, you could pick up the right leaves and bring the area back to how it had been. Ground that has been distrubed is different than the ground around it. The staff of the show must have dug holes to bury the masks. And when those are filled in, no amount of stomping around is going to compress the dirt as much as the undisturbed earth around it. First thing I’d have done is look for areas where the ground was a different color, or poke around with the point of the shovel looking for soft spots. It may not have been entirely luck that the Junior Birdmen picked the right spot. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/31 "2006-07-18T16:57:49Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] First thing I’d have done is look for areas where the ground was a different color, or poke around with the point of the shovel looking for soft spots. It may not have been entirely luck that the Junior Birdmen picked the right spot. [/QUOTE] Maybe. But if I were digging the holes for TV production, I’d have a big old, er, dirt moving thingie, clear the whole area down a few feet, stick the masks in the dirt, and cover them up. I don’t mind digging holes, but messing with their heads would be more fun. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/32 "2006-07-18T16:58:07Z")
The even scarier thing about Kayte is that she’s a teacher. From the Team [Fauxgal Family website](http://www.teamfogal.com//html/meet.shtml), which invites you to “Meat” [sic] the Fogals: > [@Kayte](#): > > After graduating from high school, I attended my dad’s alma mater, California State University at Fullerton. I graduated with a degree in Child Development and then went on to get my teaching credential. Ironic that she’d have a degree in Child Development since her own development is so obviously arrested. [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] I was expecting the Miss USA’s to provide the drama-queen quota for this show. But they’re all as gung-ho as anyone, despite their spell of exhaustion during the digging challenge. They pulled it back together and got it done. [/QUOTE] That’s 'cause they’re _hardcore_. I wonder if the casting people put the beauty queens in thinking they’d be good for a meltdown or two, and are now disappointed. Other than their gaffe with the clue bundle last week they’ve been overall pretty solid [del]Racers[/del] _Hunters_ and I’m kind of rooting for them. ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/33 "2006-07-18T16:58:37Z")
[QUOTE=Ben Gates] No way, dude. It’s totally one of Lafeyette’s men … Fort Pulaski… killed in the Battle of Savannah… rumored to have been buried nearby but the body’s never been found… they were digging for PULASKI! [/QUOTE] I have also heard this theory bandied about. To me, it’s plausible, but I don’t know. For starters, I’ve never heard of him. And while I am admittedly ignorant of much American history, I’d heard of Lafayette before. _(A wholly unscientific poll of all the people in my department returned almost 0% recognition on Pulaski, too, except for one guy who thought the town in upstate NY where he goes fishing might be named for Pulaski – but Pulaski, NY is pronounced differently. I got more hits on Lafayette [~60%], but I also work very close to Valley Forge Park, so we could have picked up some history lessons via osmosis or something.)_ Also … _why Pulaski?_ How do you segue to him? Would people know he was buried in Savannah? I think the Lafayette connection makes a lot of sense, because there is a lot of Masonic-style mystery and symbolism surrounding a lot of this game, and both Lafayette and George Washington were known Masons. Lafayette and Washington were also good friends (Lafayette named one of his sons Georges). So there is a logical connection between the two men, which the upcoming tasks in France seems to support. Then again, this Hunt sent teams from Montana to Boston for … _an overnight at a B&B?_ So who the hell knows. Could be anyone. (Some people on teh intarweb are saying the death mask is Napoleon’s, but since 99% of those people can’t even spell Napoleon correctly [e.g., “Napolean,” which would make him a guy from Napole, I guess], I tend not to trust them. Then again, I’m a snarky snob, so.) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/34 "2006-07-18T17:03:21Z")
You’re kidding…I just assumed that the mask was that of Casimir Pulaski. I’ll be damned. Kayte Fogal is what you get when you raise kids to value self-esteem over good manners. OK, that sounded just a wee bit crotchety… I can’t believe how long some of these tasks take (using TAR as my baseline). And at one point a few weeks back, one team was like 8 hours behind the team ahead of them…and didn’t LOSE! WTF? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/35 "2006-07-18T17:06:33Z")
[QUOTE=rockle] 0% recognition on Pulaski, too, except for one guy who thought the town in upstate NY where he goes fishing might be named for Pulaski – but Pulaski, NY is pronounced differently. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but Lafayette, IN is pronounced LAY-fet, Cairo, IL is pronounced KAY-row and Berlin, CT is pronounced BUR-ln. So don’t trust the locals. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/36 "2006-07-18T17:13:06Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] Yeah, but Lafayette, IN is pronounced LAY-fet, Cairo, IL is pronounced KAY-row and Berlin, CT is pronounced BUR-ln. So don’t trust the locals. [/QUOTE] Don’t forget Noo-fownd-land, NJ. 🙂 I think (even though I haven’t even checked out the linked articles) that Lafayette is definitely the better choice–if only for the reasons **rockle** cited. There’s a decent chance that anybody who paid attention in American History will at least recognize the _name_ Lafayette, but I was suprised to hear we even _had_ a Fort Pulaski. ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/37 "2006-07-18T17:39:48Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] So don’t trust the locals. [/QUOTE] This is true: here in PA, we don’t even all say “Lancaster” the same way. Or “creek,” for that matter. (I’m a “crick”-er, myself.) ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/38 "2006-07-18T20:55:19Z")
UPDATE: I knew the digging wasn’t random! [Here](http://www.teammissusa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53) in MissUSA’s blog: [QUOTE=Melissa] Speaking of rhyme or reason though…you know how stars were a big part of the whole episode? One in the quilt, ones on the flags, ones of the map that led us to the dig, etc.? Well, the pattern in which to dig holes was in the shape of a star. (note: NO ONE knew that the dig pattern was in a star shape, so it was surprising when we found out the next day) [/QUOTE] I want to go listen to the robot’s clue again and see if there was a hint in the clue. But now I have a question, weren’t there 6 masks? a 6-pointed star? hmmm ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/39 "2006-07-18T21:14:22Z")
How many of the clues on this show have been complete wooshes? There was that map with the anamorphic picture of Mt. Rushmore that nobody noticed. Only one team used the glasses to find the clue in the quilt. The masks were buried in a star shape, and nobody noticed. If I were one of the writers on this show, and had come up with such deviously subtle puzzles, I’d be a little annoyed that everyone was getting through on brute force and dumb luck. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951/40 "2006-07-18T21:17:19Z")
At least now we are down to teams that have an actual shot at winning this thing. Some don’t have much of a chance, but it is possible to imagine a scenario where any of the remaining teams could win. I think the Browns and the Hanlons are two of the worst teams/contestants in the history of reality TV. The Hanlons wandered around like a kid with ADD in a video game parlor, unable to concentrate on any one thing longer than thirty seconds, and at one point drove 100 miles out of their way to get a hamburger! I also don’t think they solved any clues on their own. The Browns, while seemingly a nice bunch of guys, simply had no shot. Overweight, slow, afraid of water and prone to injury is not the resume of a reality TV champion. Add in the inability to read a map and you have a recipe for losing. When you get eliminated almost immediately, then get put back in the game only to come in second last and then dead last, maybe you weren’t a good candidate for the race. I don’t have a lot of hope for the “geniuses” going forward. Assuming they are much smarter than the AF team and the ex-CIA, both fairly sharp teams, I don’t see a quiz on quantum mechanics or an SAT test being required to move on in this game. Plus they have slow guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treasure-hunters-7-17/364951.md?page=3)