# Treaty issues between Nato and the EU **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 3, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treaty-issues-between-nato-and-the-eu/488211 "2009-03-03T23:43:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treaty-issues-between-nato-and-the-eu/488211/1 "2009-03-03T23:43:10Z")
Something I was thinking about the other day is all the treaties different nations have with eachother. Then you have entities such as NATO and the EU which have their own agreements and treaties. My question is has their ever been any major treaty conflicts between NATO and the EU or their memebers leaving some counties who are a member of both to be in a bad spot politically? ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treaty-issues-between-nato-and-the-eu/488211/2 "2009-03-04T06:21:04Z")
My educated guess is that it’s pretty unlikely, given that NATO and the EU have different purposes - NATO is a military alliance, and the EU is (in large part) an economic zone. The EU doesn’t have an army, and NATO doesn’t regulate fishing quotas, so I don’t think their purposes would get tangled up very often. That said, there are _internal_ NATO and EU issues that often leave politicians in bad spots. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treaty-issues-between-nato-and-the-eu/488211/3 "2009-03-04T08:01:51Z")
From Wiki > [@](#): > > [“EU forces have been deployed on peacekeeping missions from Africa to the former Yugoslavia and the Middle East.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union#Military_and_defence) It sounds like the EU has some type of paramilitary capability ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treaty-issues-between-nato-and-the-eu/488211/4 "2009-03-04T08:17:49Z")
From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Security_and_Defence_Policy): > [@](#): > > The European Security and Defence Policy or ESDP is a major element of the Common Foreign and Security Policy pillar of the European Union (EU) and is the domain of EU policy covering defence and military aspects. The ESDP is the successor of the European Security and Defence Identity under NATO, but differs in that it falls under the jurisdiction of the European Union itself, including countries with no ties to NATO. > [@](#): > > In the joint EU-NATO declaration of 2002, the six founding principles included partnership—for example, crisis management activities should be “mutually reinforcing”—effective mutual consultation and cooperation, equality and due regard for ‘the decision-making autonomy and interests’ of both EU and NATO, and ‘coherent and mutually reinforcing development of the military capability requirements common to the two organisations’. In institutional terms, the partnership is reflected in particular by the “Berlin plus agreement” from March 2003, which allows the EU to use NATO structures, mechanisms and assets to carry out military operations if NATO declines to act. Furthermore, an agreement has been signed on information sharing between the EU and NATO, and EU liaison cells are now in place at SHAPE (NATO’s strategic nerve center for planning and operations) and NATO’s Joint Force Command in Naples. > > A phrase that is often used to describe the relationship between the EU forces and NATO is “separable, but not separate”:[3] the same forces and capabilities will form the basis of both EU and NATO efforts, but portions can be allocated to the European Union if necessary. Concerning missions, the right of first refusal exists: only if NATO refuses to act, the EU can decide to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treaty-issues-between-nato-and-the-eu/488211/5 "2009-03-04T09:29:44Z")
Neither NATO nor the EU can be signatory to treaties, so it would not be possible for any member of them to find itself in a spot where it is simultaneously a signatory to two contradictory treaties. Also, no individual country would sign and ratify a treaty if it contradicted another treaty that it was already a signatory to. Formally, therefore, the predicament you sketch would be unlikely to occur. In practice, however, I can imagine that something along those lines might happen as the EU expands into peace keeping and running a common foreign policy. Right now, not much is happening in that area but as Europe becomes more unified in this area it might rival NATO and some of the countries that are a member of both (which is practically every EU member except for Austria, Ireland, Finland, Sweden, Cyprus and Malta) might, on occasion, have to choose. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treaty-issues-between-nato-and-the-eu/488211/6 "2009-03-04T13:22:34Z")
> [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > From Wiki > > It sounds like the EU has some type of paramilitary capability Hm. I did not know that. Ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treaty-issues-between-nato-and-the-eu/488211/7 "2009-03-04T14:19:29Z")
> [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > Then you have entities such as NATO and the EU which have their own agreements and treaties. NATO doesn’t _have_ treaties, it **is** a treaty. It’s the North Atlantic _Treaty_ Organization. It was formed by treaties among the member nations. It does not sign treaties with other nations. I assure you, the United States will never allow itself to be bound by treaties to which it does not assent. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treaty-issues-between-nato-and-the-eu/488211/8 "2009-03-04T15:33:05Z")
> [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > It sounds like the EU has some type of paramilitary capability It’s a question of hats, not of allocated resources- “EU troops” simply means “troops of one or more member states operating under the EU flag”. It’s no different than peacekeeping missions under NATO or the UN; they just wear different hats and carry different flags.