# Trees, Nazis, and Ukrainians **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 16, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trees-nazis-and-ukrainians/964508 "2022-05-16T18:31:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trees-nazis-and-ukrainians/964508/1 "2022-05-16T18:31:06Z")
I like to research ancient religion and, in my personal classification, the two largely unknown yet massively distributed religions of prehistoric times seem to have been what I call “The Mountain Religion” and “The Tree Religion”. We see the Mountain Religion pop up among the Greeks, Romans, Hebrews, and the Indians. We have deities who [live](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Olympus#Name_and_mythological_associations) on a [mountain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Kailash#Religious_significance), the supreme deity is often [represented](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#Iron_Age_I_(1200%E2%80%931000_BCE)) as or with [a bull](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nandi_(Hinduism)), and one of his sons was a storm god. The Tree Religion, on the other hand, was far more widely spread, with its symbols and legacy stretching from Germany to Japan. The most universal symbol of this is the importance of the tree, and its connection to the spiritual world: > **[Celtic sacred trees](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_sacred_trees)** > > Many types of trees found in the Celtic nations are considered to be sacred, whether as symbols, or due to medicinal properties, or because they are seen as the abode of particular nature spirits. Historically and in folklore, the respect given to trees varies in different parts of the Celtic world. On the Isle of Man, the phrase 'fairy tree' often refers to the elder tree. The medieval Welsh poem Cad Goddeu (The Battle of the Trees) is believed to contain Celtic tree lore, possibly relating t Th... > **[Yggdrasil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Yggdrasil (from Old Norse Yggdrasill) is an immense and central sacred tree in Norse cosmology. Around it exists all else, including the Nine Worlds. > Yggdrasil is attested in the Poetic Edda compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and in the Prose Edda compiled in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In both sources, Yggdrasil is an immense ash tree that is central to the cosmos and considered very holy. The gods go to Y... > **[Colorful ribbons tied around shaman trees in Baikal Lake, Russia](https://www.123rf.com/photo_119770092_colorful-ribbons-tied-around-shaman-trees-in-baikal-lake-russia.html)** > > 123RF - Millions of Creative Stock Photos, Vectors, Videos and Music Files For Your Inspiration and Projects. > **[Trees in Tengrism and Turkish Mythology](https://woodwidewebstories.com/2021/04/23/trees-in-tengrism-and-turkish-mythology/)** > > I was born in Ankara and raised in Istanbul, which are considered to be the biggest cities in Turkey. Nature always felt like something “outside”, something far away from me. After coming to Japan,… [https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Tengriism](https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Tengriism) > **[Yorishiro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorishiro)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > A yorishiro (依り代/依代/憑り代/憑代) in Shinto terminology is an object capable of attracting spirits called kami, thus giving them a physical space to occupy during religious ceremonies. Yorishiro are used during ceremonies to call the kami for worship. The word itself literally means "approach substitute". Once a yorishiro actually houses a kami, it is called a shintai. Ropes called shimenawa decorated with paper streamers called shide often surround yori... There is overlap here, between these two groups. Christianity, for example, has the Tree of Knowledge, which features a serpent. The World Tree in most Eurasian traditions also has a serpent, often fighting with a bird of some form. There are other overlaps, as well. It’s difficult to know if there was a single origin, with the focus drifting in two different general directions, or if the two groups poached from one another over the millenia and gained some commonality. The reason that I bring this up today is because it may be a useful time to know and understand some of this, as it has propagated through to modern times. First, we have the solar cross symbols that were common through the Scandinavean, Germanic, Slavic, and Mongolian regions: > **[Solar symbol | Crosses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_symbol#Crosses)** > > The "sun cross" or "solar wheel" (🜨) is often considered to represent the four seasons and the tropical year, and therefore the Sun (though as an astronomical symbol, it represented the Earth).\[a\] > In the prehistoric religion of Bronze Age Europe, crosses in circles appear frequently on artifacts identified as cult items. An example from the Nordic Bronze Age is the "miniature standard" with amber inlay revealing a cross shape when held against the light (National Museum of Denmark). The Bron Th... Two of these that are somewhat famous are the [Swastika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika) and the [Black Sun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sun_(symbol)), which were taken from the symbols present in the local archaeology of Germany, from their history as followers of a religion similar to Norse Mythology and Tengriism. The Sun symbol generally represented the local equivalent to Tengri/Odin, who was the God of the Sky. Around the same time that Hitler started to take on his own fascination with Germanic/Aryan religious history, so did others. We have, for example, the [Book of Veles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Veles) that was crafted probably some time around the 1940s to try and recreate the lost, [pre-Christian religion of the Slavic people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_paganism); in Armenia, [Hetanism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetanism) was formed by a Nationalist leader named [Garegin Nzhdeh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garegin_Nzhdeh); [Wicca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca) was formed in England by [Gerald Gardner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Gardner_(Wiccan)); [Zalmoxianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalmoxianism) in Romania; and I presume others. Very loosely, one might say that these were tied to anti-foreign movements with the idea that other nations had taken over the land and forced their religion (Christianity) onto the locals, and the goal was to recreate their native religion and culture. But, like Wicca, that’s not necessarily tied to violence or much beyond a fondness for going out into the woods and chanting to the sky. In the Slavic regions, these became what is now called [Rodnovery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_Native_Faith). And, notably, the Book of Veles is taught in Ukrainian schools and accepted as a true, historical compilation of ancient writings. But, likewise, there is the same movement in Russia: > **[Peterburgian Vedism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterburgian_Vedism)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Clusters of deities > Identity and political philosophy > Not strictly related ones: > **[Russian Authentism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Authentism)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Clusters of deities > Identity and political philosophy > Not strictly related ones: > **[Kandybaism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandybaism)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Clusters of deities > Identity and political philosophy > Not strictly related ones: But Ukraine does seem to be the furthest out ahead on this with the [Native Ukrainian National Faith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Ukrainian_National_Faith). This faith has a cosmology which is illustrated like so: > **[Native Ukrainian National Faith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Ukrainian_National_Faith#/media/File:Ukrainian_Sylenkoite_theology.svg)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Clusters of deities > Identity and political philosophy > Not strictly related ones: Within South-Eastern Ukraine, there are a variety of Rodnovers who have joined the military and formed together, for example the Svarog Battalion and Azov Battalion. As it happens, the Svarog Battalion is fighting on the side of Russia: > **[Slavic Native Faith in Russia | Russian Rodnovers and the War in Donbass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_Native_Faith_in_Russia#Russian_Rodnovers_and_the_War_in_Donbass)** > > Rodnovery has a significant role in the War in Donbass, with many Rodnovers joining pro-russian armed forces in Donetsk and Lugansk. In 2014 Donetsk People's Republic adopted a "constitution" which stated that the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate was the official religion of the self-declared state. This was changed with the promulgation of a law "on freedom of conscience and religious organisation", backed by three deputies professing Rodnovery, whose members organised the pro-... > **[​The Rise and Fall of Eastern Ukraine's All-Pagan Battalion](https://www.vice.com/en/article/qbxpnq/the-rise-and-fall-of-eastern-ukraines-all-pagan-battalion-513)** > > The group fought against the Ukrainian Army until their commander was thrown in jail in November by the Donetsk People's Republic, the Russian-aligned government he was fighting alongside. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trees-nazis-and-ukrainians/964508/2 "2022-05-19T01:22:05Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I like to research ancient religion and, in my personal classification, the two largely unknown yet massively distributed religions of prehistoric times seem to have been what I call “The Mountain Religion” and “The Tree Religion”. I also find ancient belief systems to be fascinating. (I think the term “religion” implies more formalism than existed in most cases.) I’m not sure how well we can generalize any relationship among “mountain” or “tree” beliefs. Even finding homologues in the Indo-European pantheons is fraught. Woden/Odin was associated with Mercury/Hermes in ancient times, not with Jupiter/Zeus. It’s not clear that the leaders of gods can be matched up, even in “closely” related populations. Once you try to compare across linguistic groups (Indo-European vs Semitic, etc) it gets even harder to find homologues. It’s nearly impossible to distinguish related beliefs from coincidental similarities.