# Treis, no means no. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 13, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556 "2013-04-13T01:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/341 "2013-04-15T19:25:35Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Yeah, I tried to delete that but missed the edit window. That was in poor taste. Sorry. Eh. At least you’re still with us and trying to keep up. Look, about the slut/whore thing. What’s that all about? Are you feeling some guilt about having applied those labels? S’okay, just stop doing it. This isn’t the 50’s, the world is a much larger place, and women are no longer limited to small town gossip and bad reputations are easy enough to shrug off or escape. Don’t get me wrong, we don’t like it. That Madonna/whore thing has been sucking the joy of sex for us since Mary had that manger-baby of uncertain paternity. We’re so over being damned if we have sex, damned if we don’t, but much of the time, those are just words who harm the speaker more than the target. If you’re the kind of guy who seeks physical relationships with women, calling the women who are open to physical relationships ugly names is shooting yourself in the foot. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/342 "2013-04-15T19:26:05Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > That’s the second time I’ve seen you mention those words and I’m curious what significance you attach to them? I’ve never been particularly offended by either word. Well, I think a lot of women are offended by those words. It’s a direct attack on their character and sexuality. People use them to shame others and oppress their sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/343 "2013-04-15T19:28:20Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > What does being “fully responsible for their safety in all cases” mean? It is what it is. We live in a fucked up world. If someone attacks me, I’m going to question what I could have done differently to have prevented it. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/344 "2013-04-15T19:36:07Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > Do you even realize that you’re equating women to “things”? > > He thinks that legalized/destigmatized prostitution would end rape. I’m not trying to say that. I’m talking about the mindset of people. Desire, in particular, is probably the strongest emotion people have. I do see what you’re saying though. Like, I want that car. Or, I want that girl. It is equating women to things. They both arise from desire. That’s what I’m trying to say. So, if I have a goal to get that car and I’m persistent in my efforts, no ones going to care. In fact, they’re going to encourage me to be persistent and chase my dream. It’s not ok with women though. Sometimes, people fail to make that distinction since in everything else in life it’s ok to chase your dreams relentlessly. I don’t think legalized prostitution would end rape. I tried to make that clear in my post that I take back a lot of what I had to say. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/345 "2013-04-15T19:36:27Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > It is what it is. We live in a fucked up world. If someone attacks me, I’m going to question what I could have done differently to have prevented it. I was pumping gas at a self-serve gas station at twilight in Indiana when I was attacked. I gained a stalker by going to class. I gained the one I never met by commenting on poetry online. I knew that poetry was unpopular, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/346 "2013-04-15T19:38:09Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > It is what it is. We live in a fucked up world. If someone attacks me, I’m going to question what I could have done differently to have prevented it. Tell me, how should I have stopped my dad? Or the person at my high school? As I said before, telling women to do the “right things” is pretty much bullshit because we are accosted everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/347 "2013-04-15T19:38:11Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I don’t. Have you ever heard the term “assume the close?” It’s very common in sales. Is this why you keep asking about prostitution? Because otherwise sex isn’t a business relationship. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/348 "2013-04-15T19:39:21Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I’m not trying to say that. I’m talking about the mindset of people. Desire, in particular, is probably the strongest emotion people have. > > I do see what you’re saying though. Like, I want that car. Or, I want that girl. It is equating women to things. They both arise from desire. That’s what I’m trying to say. So, if I have a goal to get that car and I’m persistent in my efforts, no ones going to care. In fact, they’re going to encourage me to be persistent and chase my dream. > > It’s not ok with women though. Sometimes, people fail to make that distinction since in everything else in life it’s ok to chase your dreams relentlessly. You know, ending all your posts with “but it’s not ok” while spewing some of the most ridiculous nonsense I’ve seen in a while doesn’t magically negate what you say. You aren’t providing any powerful insight into the minds of rapists by saying “it’s like when a guy wants a car really bad and he’s persistent” or “like when a guy is just really horny”. Just stop. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/349 "2013-04-15T19:42:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not sure what he means by it. > > One part might be, if someone complains about you taking steps to protect yourself, not to give a tin shit. > Regards, > Shodan Yep. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/350 "2013-04-15T19:48:20Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I don’t. Have you ever heard the term “assume the close?” It’s very common in sales. Dude, I’m in sales (it’s a huge part of my job, at least). You could even argue I’m a damned good sales person. But you know what? I don’t use my sales tactics on the people I have romantic or even friendly relationships with, because that would be creepy and condescending as fuck. > [@panaccione](#): > > Also, I asked a mod to delete the hyperlink but that’s against policy. I was trying to make a light-hearted joke but that was in poor taste. Again, very sorry. But you weren’t just making a “light-hearted joke” because you wrote whole paragraphs defending the notion. And more posts. You keep saying you’re sorry and you didn’t mean it, but you keep defending the idiotic theme of that whole post. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/351 "2013-04-15T19:51:51Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Tell me, how should I have stopped my dad? Or the person at my high school? > > As I said before, telling women to do the “right things” is pretty much bullshit because we are accosted everywhere. I don’t know. I think I get it now. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/352 "2013-04-15T19:54:51Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > …snipped… We get it, you want badly to help rectify a problem you feel you may have contributed to at some point in your life. Thanks. But we’re way past worrying about being called names in this thread, so just hang out for a little while and read along. Assuming you work with peers, you have a small forum to effect change. Just don’t use those words again, and if you hear a peer say whore or slut, correct it. Couple ways to go about it. You could self-righteously demand respectful behavior, or you could approach it casually and still make a dent. Say "dude, seriously, you like women and wish to have sex with them, right? So don’t block your own self by calling women who \*might \*have sex with you names."Same thing if you hear it from women. Tell them not to be hatin’. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/353 "2013-04-15T19:58:40Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > It is what it is. We live in a fucked up world. If someone attacks me, I’m going to question what I could have done differently to have prevented it. Gee, I am certainly glad we have progressed past blaming the victim. Also, I wish someone could really convince those of you who doubt, or who assume we exaggerate, that really and truly every woman, EVERY WOMAN, has been assaulted to one degree or another by a man who insisted on doing things she was telling him not to do. Every one of us. And we are not making this up, or exaggerating. And yet, as someone said above, we still want to have sex with men. Lucky thing for you all that WE don’t treat YOU as if you were all the same, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/354 "2013-04-15T20:00:40Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Gee, I am certainly glad we have progressed past blaming the victim. > > Also, I wish someone could really convince those of you who doubt, or who assume we exaggerate, that really and truly every woman, EVERY WOMAN, has been assaulted to one degree or another by a man who insisted on doing things she was telling him not to do. Every one of us. And we are not making this up, or exaggerating. And yet, as someone said above, we still want to have sex with men. Lucky thing for you all that WE don’t treat YOU as if you were all the same, huh? Honestly, after reading all these horror stories, if I was a a woman, I think I’d want to be a lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/355 "2013-04-15T20:01:46Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I don’t. Have you ever heard the term “assume the close?” It’s very common in sales. You’re approaching [The Implication](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9spNzOFPk) territory. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/356 "2013-04-15T20:02:54Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > And who do you call against your dad? ☹ I can only thank my lucky stars that my dad never did anything like that to me or my sisters ☹ When you’re a kid your dad is the guy who’s supposed to protect you from trouble, not be the asshole making it. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/357 "2013-04-15T20:03:04Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Honestly, after reading all these horror stories, if I was a a woman, I think I’d want to be a lesbian. Even if one could just choose to swap their orientation (which I know you weren’t suggesting, I’m just saying), it wouldn’t stop the assaults. My lesbian friends still get felt up by strange men, stalked by strange men, followed home, etc. In fact, they often talk about the fact that saying, “Sorry, I’m a lesbian” seems to make the guy try harder— he’s got to show her what she’s missing, you see. Just one night on his dick and she’ll be straight for life, dontchaknow! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/358 "2013-04-15T20:05:41Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Honestly, after reading all these horror stories, if I was a a woman, I think I’d want to be a lesbian. Men are great. They don’t stop being great just because there’s a (sizable, admittedly) contingent of them who are disgusting, sucky human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/359 "2013-04-15T20:05:57Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Honestly, after reading all these horror stories, if I was a a woman, I think I’d want to be a lesbian. It’s not easier, because they get shitheads offering to “cure them” and telling them that “they just haven’t met the right man.” ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/360 "2013-04-15T20:08:50Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You’re approaching [The Implication](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9spNzOFPk) territory. I guess that is the dark flip side of that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556.md?page=19)