# Treis, no means no. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 13, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556 "2013-04-13T01:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/401 "2013-04-15T22:56:00Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yes, have you? If its late to play the semantic game, then what the hell game are you playing. She said no. She meant no. The fact that she had desire does not mean that she secretly meant yes and some sort of magic words on your part would have had her spreading her legs. It means only that she had desire for you. I’m not playing any game. I’m in a pit thread where I’ve been called a rapist, asshole, and at least a half dozen other insults based on what I said. I don’t care to defend myself against things I haven’t said or something that wasn’t explicitly clear in my post. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/402 "2013-04-15T22:57:17Z")
> [@saje](#): > > Listen dipshit, No means back the hell off and keep your hands and your suggestions to yourself. > > Period. > > Full stop. > > NOTHING else. > [@treis](#): > > I think it’s interesting the way people react to information they don’t like. This thread has pretty much hit all the hallmarks: > > Simply restate the contention (No treis, no means no) > > But the reality is that none of these counter the substance of the argument. .. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/403 "2013-04-15T22:58:48Z")
It’s funny that you think people are judging you based on anything but your explicit words. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/404 "2013-04-15T22:58:51Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I’m not playing any game. I’m in a pit thread where I’ve been called a rapist, asshole, and at least a half dozen other insults based on what I said. I don’t care to defend myself against things I haven’t said or something that wasn’t explicitly clear in my post. It appears from the shit you are currently getting (Giraffe’s post after mine was nearly identical), that you weren’t explicitly clear in your post, and perhaps you should quit now since you don’t care to defend yourself against not being explicitly clear. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/405 "2013-04-15T22:59:41Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > What is your read on this, honestly. Because it sounds like you are totally bummed that you missed a chance to score because she was such a wishy-washy indecisive pussy. I brought up this story as an example of what “no” can sometimes mean. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/406 "2013-04-15T23:00:41Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I brought up this story as an example of what “no” can sometimes mean. Yes, in your story, it meant “no.” ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/407 "2013-04-15T23:00:42Z")
And in this case, it meant “No, even though I am sexually attracted to you”. That doesn’t refute that it still meant no. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/408 "2013-04-15T23:01:10Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I brought up this story as an example of what “no” can sometimes mean. But it still _definitely_ meant no in that scenario. You get that, right? I mean, I assume you did, since you didn’t keep trying to fuck her that night ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/409 "2013-04-15T23:01:20Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > It appears from the shit you are currently getting (Giraffe’s post after mine was nearly identical), that you weren’t explicitly clear in your post, and perhaps you should quit now since you don’t care to defend yourself against not being explicitly clear. What is unclear about this post? > [@treis](#): > > So the reality is that no does not always mean absolutely no. It can mean, “yes, but I want you to be the instigator”. It can mean, “maybe, I want to fool around a bit and see how it goes first”. It can mean, “I want to fool around a bit but not have sex”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/410 "2013-04-15T23:02:27Z")
What’s unclear is whether you speak English. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/411 "2013-04-15T23:02:28Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I brought up this story as an example of what “no” can sometimes mean. It meant she didn’t want to screw you at that moment, nor was she under any social, moral, or legal obligation to. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/412 "2013-04-15T23:07:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by treis > So the reality is that no does not always mean absolutely no. It can mean, “yes, but I want you to be the instigator”. It can mean, “maybe, I want to fool around a bit and see how it goes first”. It can mean, “I want to fool around a bit but not have sex”. See, there are lots of words in the english language for all that. “I don’t know… can we take it slowly?” “I’m not ready today, can I sleep on it and maybe in the morning/tomorrow/next time we go out?” “Can we just snuggle and kiss a little, no sex tonight?” “Hot damn, I was wondering when you’d ask for it!” “No. I like spending time with you but I’m not into you that way, so please don’t ask.” ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/413 "2013-04-15T23:09:58Z")
tries, what did it mean that night? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/414 "2013-04-15T23:10:32Z")
> [@treis](#): > > To reiterate one example, I fooled around with a women, asked if she wanted to have sex, she said no, and we stopped. I later slept with her and asked why we didn’t have sex the first night. She told me she wanted to, but didn’t want me to think she was a slut. So in this particular case, no did not mean no. It meant yes I want to, but something is stopping me. You are woefully wrong about this. “No” in this scenario did not mean “yes I want to but something is stopping me.” It meant “no,” and that is all that it meant. It may be _true_ that she wanted to and something was stopping her\*, but that doesn’t mean that “no” _meant_ she wanted to and something was stopping her. It meant “no,” and nothing else. \*And it may be _false_ that she wanted to and something was stopping her. If you think she would have lied when she said “no,” then why assume she’s telling the truth now? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/415 "2013-04-15T23:16:11Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > But it still _definitely_ meant no in that scenario. You get that, right? I mean, I assume you did, since you didn’t keep trying to fuck her that night If you recall the genesis of this thread was MOL’s complaint that guys don’t listen. As she eloquently put it “Guys, Y U no listen?”. My argument was more or less that no doesn’t always mean no. Culminating in this post: > [@treis](#): > > So the reality is that no does not always mean absolutely no. It can mean, “yes, but I want you to be the instigator”. It can mean, “maybe, I want to fool around a bit and see how it goes first”. It can mean, “I want to fool around a bit but not have sex”. In this case, her no meeant “Yes, but I don’t want **treis** to think I’m a slut”. As I also have said: > [@treis](#): > > If you are trying something, a “no” definitively means stop. It is unclear to me why there is confusion about my terminology. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/416 "2013-04-15T23:17:41Z")
> [@treis](#): > > On the flip side, if I were a mind reader and said “Y’know I’m not going to think you’re a slut if we sleep together” that doesn’t make me an asshole. Absolutely true. Got no quarrel there. > [@](#): > > There’s a difference between “No means no and it’s wrong to keep trying” and “If they say no, it’s best to back off because it will lead to better outcomes”. Yes, there is. The first one is an absolute imperative. If you ignore it, you are a douchbag asshole, at the very least. The second one is merely good advice. You do realize that those two statements of yours are not mutually exclusive, right? > [@](#): > > I’ve never said anything resembling that. Back your post up and find the closest thing I’ve said to that. Every time you repeat this “no doesn’t always mean no, bitches lie” bullshit, you are helping some asshole justify why it’s OK that he forced a girl to have sex when she didn’t want to. I’m not going to dig back through this whole thread to get into “that’s not what I meant” bullshit with someone who has consistently maintained that when a women says NO, it doesn’t really count because he doesn’t think it should. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/417 "2013-04-15T23:19:52Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If you recall the genesis of this thread was MOL’s complaint that guys don’t listen. As she eloquently put it “Guys, Y U no listen?”. My argument was more or less that no doesn’t always mean no. Culminating in this post: > > In this case, her no meeant “Yes, but I don’t want **treis** to think I’m a slut”. > > As I also have said: > > It is unclear to me why there is confusion about my terminology. It doesn’t matter what her reason for saying no was, _ **her no was still a no** _. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/418 "2013-04-15T23:21:13Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > tries, what did it mean that night? > [@treis](#): > > To reiterate one example, I fooled around with a women, asked if she wanted to have sex, she said no, and we stopped. I later slept with her and asked why we didn’t have sex the first night. She told me she wanted to, but didn’t want me to think she was a slut. So in this particular case, no did not mean no. **It meant yes I want to, but something is stopping me.** Sometimes I wonder if I am posting in English… ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/419 "2013-04-15T23:22:24Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If you recall the genesis of this thread was MOL’s complaint that guys don’t listen. As she eloquently put it “Guys, Y U no listen?”. My argument was more or less that no doesn’t always mean no. Culminating in this post: > > [QUOTE=treis] > So the reality is that no does not always mean absolutely no. It can mean, “yes, but I want you to be the instigator”. It can mean, “maybe, I want to fool around a bit and see how it goes first”. It can mean, “I want to fool around a bit but not have sex”. In this case, her no meeant “Yes, but I don’t want **treis** to think I’m a slut”. [/QUOTE] I get that you’re not arguing you should have pressed on and had sex with that girl despite what she said, but I also have no idea what point you think you’re making. Refuting “no means no” with “not true, sometimes women do want to have sex even when they’re saying no” is somewhere between pointless and patronizing. Do you think no one is aware of the concept of being tempted by something even if you opt not to do it? Do you think society is somehow being harmed by a simplistic message of erring on the side of boundaries when it comes to “no means no”? What wrong do you think you’re righting, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/420 "2013-04-15T23:22:37Z")
Treis, It might have meant, “No. I really really want to, in fact I’m panting and horny as hell, but still no (for other reasons which for me, this instant, outweigh my horniness)” That fits her saying later that she did want to, without making her a liar, or making her ‘no’ invalid. Do you understand that while most people say no to things they don’t want, in some circumstances a person can say no to things that they do actually want? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556.md?page=22)