# Treis, no means no. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 13, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556 "2013-04-13T01:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/501 "2013-04-16T06:23:18Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Ok, I admit I was way off with some of the things I said. I do get it now. The onus is on men to recognize and respect boundaries, signs, words and not commit assault and/or rape. I’m not sure if you saw it, but I did say that already. > > I’m really in no position to defend myself or expect any sympathy. I’m not going to go back on what I said. If sexual frustration is the cause, then tough shit. That’s no excuse for assault. > > I am not, without a doubt, a 100% monstrous scumbag or goddamn disgusting human being though. People make mistakes and do bad things. I doubt this excludes you. Your lip service doesn’t mean shit to me or any other woman who’s ever had her boundaries pushed too far, gotten creeped out by skeevy pervs like you, been assaulted, been molested, or been raped. Which is pretty much all of us. The worst thing I’ve ever done to another human being was when I made fun of a male classmate’s acne in 7th grade. Then I felt horrible and apologized that afternoon, and he forgave me. The worst thing you ever did was sexually assault multiple women over a period of years. That you realize it was wrong (and oh yeah, fucking illegal!) years or decades after the fact (and only then after being berated for your rapeyness by random internet strangers) does not entitle you to forgiveness. Going up to each and every woman you’ve ever assaulted, apologizing, and then either confessing your crimes to the police or offering your victims compensation… that would entitle you to forgiveness. Until you do that, you’re a slimy toerag disguised in human flesh. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/502 "2013-04-16T06:28:51Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I don’t know, if I told a guy no, then he came back and said lecherously, “You know, _I_ won’t think you’re slut” (implying everyone else does), it’d take quite a bit of self control to not slap him. I wouldn’t, of course, unless he touched me again. > > That statement, beyond everything else, is condescending as fuck. I don’t care if some weirdo thinks I’m a slut and for some dude I clearly don’t know well to assume his opinion means so much . . . if I had been turned on, I wouldn’t be anymore. I don’t just go around slapping people all willy nilly, but if you don’t take no for an answer and get physical first, well, I’ll do what I have to in order to get you off of me. Exactly. I’m not going to outright slap him like they do in the movies. (Note, I said I’d be _tempted_, not that I’d actually do it.) But if some guy won’t take “no!” for an answer, and keeps pushing, a girl’s gotta do what a girl’s gotta do. (I probably should have phrased my original post better) But someone telling me, “I won’t think you’re a slut!” Well, good for you. The answer’s still no. Get lost, creep. And if you stop and think about it, if anyone’s a slut, it’s a guy who’s so desparate to get his rocks off he would be willing to put up with a girl who actually is playing those mind games. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/503 "2013-04-16T06:38:11Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Your lip service doesn’t mean shit to me or any other woman who’s ever had her boundaries pushed too far, gotten creeped out by skeevy pervs like you, been assaulted, been molested, or been raped. Which is pretty much all of us. > > The worst thing I’ve ever done to another human being was when I made fun of a male classmate’s acne in 7th grade. Then I felt horrible and apologized that afternoon, and he forgave me. The worst thing you ever did was sexually assault multiple women over a period of years. That you realize it was wrong (and oh yeah, fucking illegal!) years or decades after the fact (and only then after being berated for your rapeyness by random internet strangers) does not entitle you to forgiveness. Going up to each and every woman you’ve ever assaulted, apologizing, and then either confessing your crimes to the police or offering your victims compensation… that would entitle you to forgiveness. > > Until you do that, you’re a slimy toerag disguised in human flesh. You don’t know me. Please, don’t call me out anymore. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/504 "2013-04-16T06:47:49Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > You don’t know me. Please, don’t call me out anymore. So you are going to turn yourself in for all those times you committed sexual assault, then? Oh, no, you’re just going to post a link to a youtube video and say “no hard feelings?” I think she’s got you down pretty good, friend. I think we all do at this point. See you around. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/505 "2013-04-16T07:01:11Z")
Hey, c’mon, he said no. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/506 "2013-04-16T07:03:38Z")
> [@colander](#): > > So you are going to turn yourself in for all those times you committed sexual assault, then? > > Oh, no, you’re just going to post a link to a youtube video and say “no hard feelings?” > > I think she’s got you down pretty good, friend. I think we all do at this point. > > See you around. Turn myself in for what exactly? What specific assaults would those be? Do you know? No, you don’t. Neither does she. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/507 "2013-04-16T07:17:35Z")
Oh, and last thing. FTR, despite what you think or the mistakes I have made, I’m still a great fucking person. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/508 "2013-04-16T07:20:12Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Oh, and last thing. FTR, despite what you think or the mistakes I have made, I’m still a great fucking person. Have you told your mother about the assaults you did? I bet you haven’t. I bet it’s because you know that she’d be ashamed of you if she knew. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/509 "2013-04-16T07:24:51Z")
> [@colander](#): > > Have you told your mother about the assaults you did? > > I bet you haven’t. > > I bet it’s because you know that she’d be ashamed of you if she knew. What if I told you my mother was dead? Would you be ashamed of yourself? This is getting tiring. I said some offensive things. I apologized. Learn from it and move on. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/510 "2013-04-16T07:37:28Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > What if I told you my mother was dead? Would you be ashamed of yourself? That is a shame. Because if it’s true that she’s in heaven, I guess it means she already knows everything. All the things you’ve done. I wonder, when it rains… can you hear her sobbing? > [@](#): > > This is getting tiring. I said some offensive things. I apologized. Learn from it and move on. Oh, I’ve learned so much about you, **pannacione**. I think we’re gonna be real good friends from here on in. Sleep tight. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/511 "2013-04-16T07:55:03Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > What if I told you my mother was dead? Would you be ashamed of yourself? > > This is getting tiring. I said some offensive things. I apologized. Learn from it and move on. You should contact your ISP about maybe being switched to some sort of read-only internet. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/512 "2013-04-16T08:25:59Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > You should contact your ISP about maybe being switched to some sort of read-only internet. haahaha, totally saving this burn for later. > [@panaccione](#): > > Turn myself in for what exactly? What specific assaults would those be? Do you know? > > No, you don’t. Neither does she. We don’t need to. You’ll never forget, and that’s enough. I’m modestly placated by the notion that you seem to have begun developing a nascent conscience, you see. My molester did the same, around age 50. And since he’ll never be imprisoned (despite repeat offenses with at least 2 victims), my biggest comfort is knowing he’ll die alone, lonely, and _haunted_. \>:} ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/513 "2013-04-16T12:43:38Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I don’t know, if I told a guy no, then he came back and said lecherously, “You know, _I_ won’t think you’re slut” (implying everyone else does), it’d take quite a bit of self control to not slap him. I wouldn’t, of course, unless he touched me again. Any guy who says this in response to “no” is pretty much telling you what he thinks about women who say “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/514 "2013-04-16T14:01:39Z")
BTW, I wonder if **Treis** is aware that “I didn’t want to seem like a slut back then” _really means_ “I didn’t really want to have sex with you just now but I don’t want to tell you that.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/515 "2013-04-16T15:06:58Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I don’t know, if I told a guy no, then he came back and said lecherously, “You know, _I_ won’t think you’re slut” (implying everyone else does), it’d take quite a bit of self control to not slap him. I wouldn’t, of course, unless he touched me again. > > That statement, beyond everything else, is condescending as fuck. I don’t care if some weirdo thinks I’m a slut and for some dude I clearly don’t know well to assume his opinion means so much . . . if I had been turned on, I wouldn’t be anymore. I don’t just go around slapping people all willy nilly, but if you don’t take no for an answer and get physical first, well, I’ll do what I have to in order to get you off of me. I completely agree with doing everything you think is appropriate if someone is touching you. But for her to say that this is why people don’t see women slapping men as abuse is a stupid damned thing to say. Otherwise, yeah, I agree with all of the people saying that a dude who would say that is just gross. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/516 "2013-04-16T19:01:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > if some guy won’t take “no!” for an answer, and keeps pushing, a girl’s gotta do what a girl’s gotta do. As a male, I can heartily recommend close contact between your knee and the douchenozzle’s balls as proper action in such circumstances. Preferably with enough force to make him taste said balls in the back of his throat for the next couple of days. I’m totally convinced that no women can _really_ appreciate the effect of a bull’s eye hit in the balls. You need to be male to know how effective that shit is. And IMNSHO, guys who don’t respect women’s boundaries deserve every gram of that experience. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/517 "2013-04-16T19:22:27Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I just had to say, I can relate so much to this post, and it’s rare to find someone who understands. He was my adopted father and he was supposed to be a Dad. I don’t have a relationship with him at all now that he’s divorced my Mom, but I think about all the ways in which he was a Dad and it just makes me so sad. I actively miss him sometimes., but then I think, maybe he never was that person I worshipped so much when I was a kid. Maybe he didn’t really love me and he was just being manipulative. I don’t know. For me it wasn’t what actually happened that hurt so much, it was the betrayal of someone who is supposed to protect you. I’m like thre pages late to this thread because of treis, but thanks. I don’t know about my dad, either. We are fixing our relationship and I am glad we had the opportunity to do that, which Mom and I never did…but you know. I mean, all those afternoons sitting watching Price is Right with him, all the times he waited for me after school, sitting in the car by himself, all the times he drove me to my best friend’s house, all the times he cooked dinner for me…they don’t just go away because he had very very bad judgement three times. I was alone with him thousands of times and he never did anything wrong. It’s very hard to sit here and say because three times in my life he was an asshole that I should never forgive him over that. Hell, I think I’m going to call him now. On the topic that’s currently going on, I have two stories to relate: I once was semi-sort of seeing a super hot guy, whom I really wanted to sleep with. We went on a date, and afterwards we sat in the back of his car. I was quite willing to fool around a little bit, but I didn’t want to sleep with him - and I didn’t. When it became clear, he pushed a little - ok, quite a bit - but eventually stopped. I still wanted to have sex with him, and to this day, I have a bit of wistfulness that I said no…but I do NOT sleep with men in cars and I am glad I never compromised my standards. Even when I wonder what it would have been like I am still relieved I didn’t go along to get along. You can still want sex and say no…and if he had pushed further, I’d just have terrible memories of that day. The other story. During college I went home for the summer. I met a man in a summer course who immediately came on to me. I told him I had a boyfriend (not true, but at that time I wasn’t as confident as I am now) and he backed right off. I got to know him. He got to know me. We became friends. We started hanging out. There was clear sexual tension between us. And one evening after class we were hanging out in the evening on campus and I kissed him (and confessed there was no boyfriend). And the next day we became lovers. And when I asked him later why he had backed off if he still wanted to sleep with me, he said, “You said you had a boyfriend, so I decided to let you make the decision if you wanted to pursue me.” I have never forgotten that conversation. That was respect. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/518 "2013-04-16T20:05:55Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > The other story. During college I went home for the summer. I met a man in a summer course who immediately came on to me. I told him I had a boyfriend (not true, but at that time I wasn’t as confident as I am now) and he backed right off. I got to know him. He got to know me. We became friends. We started hanging out. There was clear sexual tension between us. And one evening after class we were hanging out in the evening on campus and I kissed him (and confessed there was no boyfriend). And the next day we became lovers. And when I asked him later why he had backed off if he still wanted to sleep with me, he said, “You said you had a boyfriend, so I decided to let you make the decision if you wanted to pursue me.” > > I have never forgotten that conversation. That was respect. It is a sad statement on our culture that this was a particularly unforgetable incident. (I hope you understand this isn’t a criticism of you at all.) ---
**Author:** ![StaudtCJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@StaudtCJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaudtCJ)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/519 "2013-04-16T23:21:07Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I’d like to dedicate this to you guys and the threads. I hear you. [Post Secret](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32j1wWJt0w0) > > I’m going to bow out, now. No hard feelings. This made me cry, because a few of them I could have written. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Any guy who says this in response to “no” is pretty much telling you what he thinks about women who say “yes”. This is quoted for truth. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556/520 "2013-04-17T00:36:08Z")
> [@StaudtCJ](#): > > This made me cry, because a few of them I could have written. > . I know. I’m glad you appreciate it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/treis-no-means-no/655556.md?page=27)